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abbaschild95 
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Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
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 Topic: painting
Posted: 24 Feb 2011 at 10:19pm |
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hey guys do you use a 2 stage paint (base then clear coat) or a one stage? need to weigh the pros and cons here....
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Great-granfather's WC---- hopefully many more to come!
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Brad-MN
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Hamburg, MN
Points: 765
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Posted: 24 Feb 2011 at 11:41pm |
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I use a 1 stage eurothane from PPG, their Omni line. I haven't done a clear coat tractor yet; in my opinion shiny is good, but too shiny makes em look fake.
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1930 U
1938 A
1941 WF
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abbaschild95
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Location: Colorado
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Posted: 24 Feb 2011 at 11:55pm |
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does NAPA have a quality paint? thats kind of our local paint dealer...
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Great-granfather's WC---- hopefully many more to come!
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allis restorer
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Joined: 05 Dec 2010
Location: Rib Lake, WI
Points: 184
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Posted: 24 Feb 2011 at 11:59pm |
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Napa's paint is ok, but i prefer Carquest's paint the best, it doesnt fade like others do. Just my opinion.
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Go orange or Go home!!
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abbaschild95
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Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 12:01am |
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where can you buy that at?
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Great-granfather's WC---- hopefully many more to come!
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allis restorer
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Location: Rib Lake, WI
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Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 12:05am |
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Carquest paint your can get at a Carquest autoparts store. I dont know maybe they dont have them around by you?
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Go orange or Go home!!
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abbaschild95
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Location: Colorado
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Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 12:18am |
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no i dont believe so.... im from the southeast part of colorado...
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Great-granfather's WC---- hopefully many more to come!
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abbaschild95
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Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 12:20am |
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i mis spoke! yes there are some! do they go by the PO1 or do they just have it labled as allis chalmers?
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Great-granfather's WC---- hopefully many more to come!
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allis restorer
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Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 12:21am |
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i looked at there store locations and there like at least 20 located around the Denver area.
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Go orange or Go home!!
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abbaschild95
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Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 12:22am |
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yes the La junta one would be closest. are they considerably more expensive? im not worried about price i just want to be prepared haha
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Great-granfather's WC---- hopefully many more to come!
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allis restorer
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Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 12:31am |
There prices are pretty reasonable, i get alot of things for there, they also carry a fair amount of old tractor parts
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Go orange or Go home!!
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Dave H
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Central IL
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Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 3:54am |
I am now using the single stage DuPont in the Nason line.
I find it very forgiving - keep in mind tha it will kill you as quick as PPG if you are suseptable at all to teh cy stuff.
I used to use OMNI but had a problem and as always it was the painter lol. So my solution was to switch to a supplier that I did not have a problem with the product.
I wonder if that stuff will hit 60 bucks a quart this summer :-( .
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Brad-MN
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Location: Hamburg, MN
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Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 7:45am |
We have been using Omni's 2 part epoxy primer and have great luck with it. You can cover with one coat and it seems to seal everything really good and accept paint awesome. The one drawback is you have to have it covered with color within 24 hours, or so the experts at PPG say.
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1930 U
1938 A
1941 WF
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JPG AUSTRALIA
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Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 8:10am |
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I use a 2-pack that is iso free , its made by a company here called protec,and ppg here also make one that is iso free as well.
i
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Butch(OH)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Lucerne Ohio
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Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 8:10am |
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Don't confuse two part with two stage, aint the same thing. Also not all NAPAs have the same paint lines so just saying "NAPA paint" doesnt cut it either. Our NAPA sells PPG. Our Carquest sells Dupont, never been in another Carquest so I dont know if they all sell that brand? One thing I didn't know until just recently is those Sherwin Williams stores you see everywhere have industrial coatings (I thought they just sold house paint, LOL.) And they have some pretty decent two part systems for decent prices. Just dont expect them to you know what Perisan #1 orange is unless the salesman is wearing an A-C cap. You need to take them a color chip to match. It is not going to be long before none of this is available to us due to EPA regs and we will have to use water borne base color coats and VOC clears, this is what is called a two stage system.
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abbaschild95
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Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 8:12am |
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you guys dont use a sealer. sorry no question marks on my phone..
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Great-granfather's WC---- hopefully many more to come!
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Butch(OH)
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Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 9:00am |
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The expoxy primer that Brad mentioned can be used as a sealer by simply adding reducer to the mix. Not sure if it is listed on the P sheet for Omni but the higher end DPLF epoxy primer is listed that way. I have never seen the need for a seperate sealer when using a two part epoxy primer reduced.
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Brad-MN
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Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 9:15am |
I tried to use a reducer in conjuction with the Omni epoxy primer and didn't really care for the results. I prefer to use it as recommended with just the primer and catalyst in a 2 to 1 ratio. With the reducer it didn't seem to cover as well. I have it down pretty good I think, getting good coverage in basically 1 primer coat with only a few touch ups needed after some inspection.
Butch, have you tried the enviro line from PPG, which is their water borne system? I have heard they had some trouble in the past, but just watched a hot rod show a couple weekends ago and they were using the PPG water borne system and it seemed to cover good and be just as easy to spray as the solvent paint. I thought about giving it a try as the cost has come down to a more reasonable amount compared to the solvent paint. I'd really llike to get away from all the solvents to save myself misery down the road.
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1930 U
1938 A
1941 WF
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abbaschild95
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Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 9:35am |
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so first go at it with a coat of sandable primer?? sand between the first and second coats and use the second coat as the sealer? or get a different kind of primer completely?
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Great-granfather's WC---- hopefully many more to come!
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Butch(OH)
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Location: Lucerne Ohio
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Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 9:39am |
Hey Brad,
It takes very little reducer to make the transformation on the epoxy primers. Cant remember the P sheet info as I do it by eyeball now. Seems to me its like 20-1. In coverage you cant tell the differance when done correctly.
We will al be using either old stock, or water bourne in just a few short years.
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NC Bruce
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Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: Mill Spring, NC
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Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 9:56am |
When the painter finished my AC175 last summer, he used the CarQuest Paint too.
I believe He just used the Acrylic Enamel 5.0, plus; hardener, thinner, cream enamel, reducer, primer, sandpaper & putty & supplies...costs over $500.
Drop me an Email and I'll send you the CarQuest item #'s, as mine was  the AC P O #2 ( ppg#60396).
The AC Persion Orange #1 ( ppg# 60080), I believe that's correct.
*Someone had said that the newer AC Corporate Orange('78 and up) was same mixture as Dupont ('75 Corvette) Flame Red....I'm sure the AC Painters on this web site could tell you.
What AC Tractor / model are you painting? LOL!
PS. In photo above look just above tractor grill, and Chimney Rock (Last of Mohicans movie), and Lake Lure(Dirty Dancing movie) are located, western NC
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Butch(OH)
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Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 9:59am |
 abbaschild95 wrote:
so first go at it with a coat of sandable primer?? sand between the first and second coats and use the second coat as the sealer? or get a different kind of primer completely? |
OK I am into being technical today so here we go;
What you need to do is to forget the term "sandable primer" as it is a misnomer. Now before you call foul I know it is sold in spray cans but only because people demand it. For the reasons they are used (and to get best results) primers and surfacers must be appled seperately. If your spray bomb "sandable primer" sands easily it has very poor qualities as primer and conversly if it has good priming qualities it isnt going to sand easy. First you prime, then you apply what is called surfacer. The laquer surfacers have several very redeeming qualities. 1. They are relatively cheap. 2. They apply blindfolded 3. whats left in the gun you pour back into the can. 4. they sand like majic dry or wet. One you get things leveled out you put on one more coat, sand enough to scuff but leave one color, and paint. Some will throw another coat of epoxy primer over the surfacer but its not needed.
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abbaschild95
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Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 10:17am |
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thank you butch! thats exactly what i needed! and i am painting a WC. kind of a practice tractor of sorts
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Great-granfather's WC---- hopefully many more to come!
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Brad-MN
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Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 10:29am |
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Butch, what you describe is a third step that I have never done. I have always went with a primer coat and then on to multiple layers of paint to suit my coverage and depth preferences in the color stage. I have never had a problem with bonding primer, whether it's an epoxy or sandable sealer, to my color coat. Should I be using a lacquer surfacer in between?
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1930 U
1938 A
1941 WF
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abbaschild95
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Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 10:33am |
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also when sanding you use a 180 or bigger? hand block sander or electric palm?? what is more effective?
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Great-granfather's WC---- hopefully many more to come!
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Butch(OH)
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Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 11:58am |
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Brad The surfacer has nothing to do with bonding, its all about getting things leveled out and smooth. It can be done with spoons, hammers and heat on the metal if a person has those skills and patiance, I have neither. It can also be done when sanding the putty but its lots easier and quicker to give the metal a couple coats of surfacer and let it dry for an hour and sand. The first time used it will amaze by how easily it sands. Properly done the surface will feel as smooth as a new born baby's butt. I only can wish I was good enough with metal to go without it! You dont use it on castings and often dont need it on new repro sheet metal, depends on how well the maker knows his craft.
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Butch(OH)
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Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 12:12pm |
abbaschild95 wrote:
also when sanding you use a 180 or bigger? hand block sander or electric palm?? what is more effective? |
What you use depends on preferance and how much leveling you have to perform and what your topcoat requires. The Omni MTK Urethanes I use requires a 400 grit finish when used with a DA and finer yet when done any other method. Wet or dry is prefferance mostly. I like wet because I do all my work except painting in a common area and dust is a problem. I use dry when I am in a hurry or I can do it outside. When leveling bad metal work, or rust pits and I want to knock it down fast I use 240 in the DA (dry of course) or 380 by hand dry or wet. After several coats when things are getting close to OK I switch to 400 in the DA and 500 hand. Final block sanding of large flat areas like a hood or flat fender tops is always done wet and in a very presise pattern.
Another way to eliminate having to do all this is to use crappy paint or apply it wrong or make sure there is lots of dirt on the surface so there is no shine, then it makes no differance LOL. The battle is never ending, the better you can paint the better body man you need to be.
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abbaschild95
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Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 4:04pm |
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ill post pictures of what i have to work with in a little bit then go from there maybe?
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Great-granfather's WC---- hopefully many more to come!
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BLee Mn
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Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 4:47pm |
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i always say , anbody can paint, its the prep work that takes time, patience and skill
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Cowboy UP
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Brad-MN
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Posted: 25 Feb 2011 at 4:53pm |
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I guess I was more thinking about castings and such, rather than sheet metal. I spend alot of time either making new sheet metal or pounding and welding and grinding any sheet metal defects so I don't have to spend the time with a surfacer and sanding. I now see where you're headed Butch, thanks for the insight though, it may be something I use in the future on a problem piece that I don't have the time, patience or skill to do the metal work on.
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1930 U
1938 A
1941 WF
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