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DREAM 
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Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Location: Elberton,GA
Points: 1828
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 Posted: 07 Sep 2011 at 7:55pm |
OK, I just got to thinking about it, and I got some of my thought processes from my grandfather. He would not have taken the old material off, because that took too much time, and more padding was a good thing. So I went out there and did a little "exploratory surgery". Here's what I found;
This is what he had on there. Brown canvas duck on the outside, followed by a tablecloth, then a foam chair cushion, then a flour sack. And under that....
The original seat cover! Has the welt on each end. Seat still has one of the corner coasters on it.
Here's the stuffing. Much like the others. Straw ticking and cotton padding.
The bottom.
And it in it's normal position. Looks right at home there with the rusted off fenders and all, right? LOL!
Also, can't really tell m the pics, but it's OD green canvas.
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I didn't do it! It was a short, fat, tall, skinny guy that looked like me!
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GlenninPA
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Ashley, PA
Points: 5054
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Posted: 07 Sep 2011 at 8:26pm |
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Mine looks just like that, but the hole in the middle is bigger!. I have all 4 corner buttons and braces. Also, free hickory nut shells to anybody who wants them, I do not know how they managed to get so many of them in that little seat!
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Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment.
From listening comes wisdom and from speaking comes repentance.
Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.
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mdtractormechanic
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Joined: 26 May 2011
Location: MD
Points: 662
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Posted: 07 Sep 2011 at 8:38pm |
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DREAM, My seat contained pretty much the same items along with several small, cotton filled pillows.
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Joe's 1939 Model WC, 1940 Model RC, 1944 & 1950 Model C's, B-125 PU
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DREAM
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Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Location: Elberton,GA
Points: 1828
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Posted: 07 Sep 2011 at 8:53pm |
Glenn, i'm not sure what's in mine, but i'd be willing to bet most of it would be water oak acorns. Something is definitely moving around in there.
Joe, that seat doesn't look like it would be too comfortable as it is. I haven't sat down on it since I removed all of the padding, but I bet it would get hard pretty quick. I figure most enterprising farmers would add whatever they could find to smooth out the ride a bit.
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I didn't do it! It was a short, fat, tall, skinny guy that looked like me!
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Don(MI)
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Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: Michigan
Points: 3796
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Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 6:07am |
Well, curiosity got the best of me last night....Heres what I found....
[TUBE]D5zGR4f6dM8[/TUBE]
Pictures
There you have it....Now.......You guys tell me....Think its original or not??
I really am beginning to think this was......
Edited by Don(MI) - 08 Sep 2011 at 6:12am
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Galatians 5:22-24
"I got a pig at home in a pen and corn to feed him on, All I need is a pretty little girl to feed him when I'm gone!"
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Don(MI)
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Location: Michigan
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Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 6:12am |
AHHHH....one thing I just noticed...See the coil spring marks on the burlap??
Makes me wonder if the canvas was a recover at some point? And the burlap instead of being on the coils, was then placed on top of the canvas??? Does that seem right?
Still wouldn't make sense, that someone would recover it 2 times that way, I don't understand that part.
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Galatians 5:22-24
"I got a pig at home in a pen and corn to feed him on, All I need is a pretty little girl to feed him when I'm gone!"
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DREAM
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Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Location: Elberton,GA
Points: 1828
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Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 6:14am |
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Yep, I couldn't resist either. It's kinda like unwrapping a mummy. You just can't wait to see what is underneath. I can definitely see why the farmer would want more padding. After awhile, the old padding would wear down into the springs, and those would be hard on the posterior. Just cool to see that what was put on there in West Allis is still there after all these years. The canvas on mine is over 60 years old. A testament to the quality of American workmanship and products, just like the rest of the machine.
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I didn't do it! It was a short, fat, tall, skinny guy that looked like me!
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Ken in Texas
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Henderson, TX
Points: 5919
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Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 7:39am |
After seeing Dreams original seat cushion I think my memory of when it was 9 or 10 is still pretty good at 71. One of my seat cover reproductions from memory with the welt is pictured above on the 38 B seat. The insides are not correct. It is a foam block in this picture. Since then the whole cushion has been rebuilt with (the incorrect for the vintage) coil springs and a different fitted canvas covering.
The 38 vintage cushion used wavy SSSSS springs running front to back. They are clearly shown with a part # in parts books. I have a complete set, from the Brett Phillips collection, of what are supposed to be NOS replacement springs. They seem to be to short work properly. Laying flat they don't reach the distance required from front to back of the seat. Lots of old upholstered ez chairs and rockers used these wavy SSSSS flat springs, You can see them when you turn a old chair over.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: NW Illinois
Points: 22810
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Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 8:36am |
 Don(MI) wrote:
Well, curiosity got the best of me last night....Heres what I found....
There you have it....Now.......You guys tell me....Think its original or not??
I really am beginning to think this was...... |
Don, it looks to me like you have a recover of a recover since it doesn't appear to have the welts and the corners are folded.
Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 08 Sep 2011 at 8:45am
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mdtractormechanic
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Joined: 26 May 2011
Location: MD
Points: 662
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Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 10:46am |
I have worked on various old pieces of construction machinery in my 30 years plus as a heavy equipment mechanic. Many of these machines had canvas seats. They all had a similar method of construction.
sbakers's seat has been recovered due to the fact the edges of the canvas were folded over, sewn then stapled. Finishing the edges of the canvas like that would not have been a standard manufacturing practice. Plus you wouldn't have the seams running across the front and back sides given the fact that the seams are the weakest part of a cover due to the thread.
As for Don's canvas cover, I would have to say it was recovered. The folded corners and especially the use of tacks is not a standard manufacturing process. Even the vinyl seats were stapled. I find it interesting that I'm in Maryland and DREAM lives in Georgia and we both have seats identical in every way which both came with the 1950 C. Given all the information I've accumulated I would have to conclude that these seats are original to these machines.
I do know that AC had a couple of companies making seat for them and their seats may have had a different construction. If they used a zigzag (no-sag) spring it would typically have a wooden box frame to attach the spring.
Edited by mdtractormechanic - 08 Sep 2011 at 10:48am
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Joe's 1939 Model WC, 1940 Model RC, 1944 & 1950 Model C's, B-125 PU
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Wes (VA)
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Elkton, VA
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Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 11:38pm |
Somebody say springs?? http://atrim.com/Page22.htmlor http://atrim.com/Page23.htmlHow about Jute backing (burlap) ?? http://atrim.com/Page10.html
Edited by Wes (VA) - 08 Sep 2011 at 11:40pm
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DREAM
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Location: Elberton,GA
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Posted: 09 Sep 2011 at 10:42pm |
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Well, if everything goes well(and it usually doesn't.LOL!), I should be on that seat tomorrow doing a little mowing. Just got everything back together after replacing the toolbox, gas tank, steering column tube, and doing a little work to tighten up the Ross steering box. Still have to pull everything back down to replace the torque tube(mine is badly pitted from battery acid and has broken bolts everywhere), but I have put off the mowing long enough that the briars are starting to gain some ground, and I need to put them back in their place. I'm going to try the seat as is for a round or two, just to get a feel for how it originally was. I will be bringing some extra cushioning for later, because I don't think the back and backside will handle it well.
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I didn't do it! It was a short, fat, tall, skinny guy that looked like me!
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Chalmersbob
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Points: 2122
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Posted: 07 Mar 2013 at 8:56pm |
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All you need is a big old canvas that was used to cover equipment, like the 12' X 12' one we have in the shop. It will even have that "worn look". Bob
Edited by Chalmersbob - 07 Mar 2013 at 8:57pm
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4 B's, 1 C's,3 CA's, 2 G's WD, D14, D15, B-1, B10, B12, 712S,
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Ken in Texas
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Henderson, TX
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Posted: 09 Mar 2013 at 5:12pm |
I have been a little unfaithful in keeping up with the AC Forum goings on. It has been a blast to play a little ketchup for a few minutes.
If you are going to restore a B or a C, make it look like as close to what it LOOKED LIKE WHEN NEW. As far as I know Bs and Cs didn't come NEW with Black Vinyl covered seat cushions. Or. Persian Orange #2 paint.
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Craig in PA
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Joined: 07 Feb 2013
Location: Dalmatia, PA
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Posted: 09 Mar 2013 at 7:37pm |
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Ken, I agree. I don't think they ever came with vinyl. B's and C's never had P2 sprayed on them either And as I far as I know, the "B" decal didn't show up until around '50 or '51.
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Formally SWMOCraig
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"Whenever there is a hard job to do, I assign it to a lazy man, he's sure to find an easy way of doing it."
Walter P. Chrysler
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Craig in PA
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Posted: 09 Mar 2013 at 7:58pm |
I shared this in another related post a few days ago. The company(ies) that made seats for these tractors were at the mercy of the fabric manufacturers, meaning, that there were more than likely color variations in the material over the years. We see the same thing in our shop, not only in the canvas, but the vinyl too. It's not unusual to see differences in the color of the material from one order to the other. It all depends on the dye lots at the time of processing the material. The same thing was true back then. WWII and the Korean War was going on when these tractors were being built. They were probably using the same canvas that was being fitted in all the military applications. Due to the rush of wartime material, this may have prompted even more color variations due to the rushing need of the canvas. The material manufacturers may have said "good enough" on the color and sent it on it's way. I think it's very safe to say though, that OD-light brown canvas is going to be about as close as you can get to the factory look. Craig
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Formally SWMOCraig
"Like" us on Facebook at Allis B Seat.Com
"Whenever there is a hard job to do, I assign it to a lazy man, he's sure to find an easy way of doing it."
Walter P. Chrysler
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TedBuiskerN.IL.
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Davis, IL.
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Posted: 31 Mar 2014 at 9:54pm |
Right after WWII there was a lot of surplus green canvas available. The C we had in the 50's had a green canvas cover with the springs and felt and the flax fiber, holes in the bottom plywood too. Dad tacked window screen over the holes to try to keep the mice out.
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Most problems can be solved with the proper application of high explosives.
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Ted in NE-OH
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Posted: 14 Oct 2016 at 9:55pm |
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The holes in the bottom board are for letting air out when you sit on the seat and compress it.
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CA, WD, C, 3 Bs, 2 Gs, WC, I-400, 914
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