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Don(MO) 
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Bates City MO.
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 Topic: Old Tractor Tune Ups
Posted: 28 Oct 2017 at 12:21pm |
I am sitting here just getting ready to eat some lunch thinking about a tune up on one of my 45's so I got to thinking if you guys just set the points with feeler gauge and call it good or more over am I one of the last old guys left that uses a dwell meter to set the points. Please don't make me feel old and say to just use a feeler gauge. lmao After lunch I'm going to tune her up and get back to working ground up for the winter.
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3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.
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Gerald J.
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Location: Hamilton Co, IA
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Posted: 28 Oct 2017 at 2:02pm |
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Setting points with a feeler gauge has worked for all recorded history of magnetos and distributors. Some GM products required the dwell meter because of bad access to the points. It works too. Remember that when you change the point gap, you also change the ignition timing because the distributor cam has a gentle slope.
Gerald J.
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Gary in da UP
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Location: EUP of Mi.
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Posted: 28 Oct 2017 at 2:35pm |
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Feeler gauge works . I adjust timing and carb adjustment using a vacuum gauge . Set plug gap and Check valve lash with a wire type thickness gauge , flat feeler gauges are not the best with a worn valve train .
And unless your points are burnt
the capacitor is fine to reuse with new points as new capacitors can be junk right out of box .
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darrel in ND
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Posted: 28 Oct 2017 at 6:28pm |
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What's a dwell meter......? LOL! Darrel
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Don(MO)
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Location: Bates City MO.
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Posted: 28 Oct 2017 at 6:40pm |
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So if I set the points on a 50 year old tractor with lets just say now has over 7,000 hours on it at the factory air gap of lets say where .020" for the distributor when it was new then the dwell angle will still be at the new factory dwell angle of lets say was 31* to 34* this 50 year old tractor will still maintain the same dwell angle at the air gap of .20" or will it change the dwell?
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3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.
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DiyDave
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Gambrills, MD
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Posted: 28 Oct 2017 at 8:18pm |
I needs to get some of them feeler gauges, my matchbooks is gettin wore out... 
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drobCA
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Posted: 28 Oct 2017 at 8:54pm |
my 2c sez more power to whoever keeps these old beauties running decent by whatever means they prefer. I'd gauge most people feel similar, but I don't want to dwell on it.
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3 Ford 8N's I loan to neighbors, but the '52CA, '41B and little B1 I do not.
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Posted: 29 Oct 2017 at 11:19am |
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Using a Dwell Meter is the best way to do it. Feelers get pretty close, but you're measuring the time the points are closed with the meter which is what the coil cares about. Now if you really want to be accurate, get one of those old Sun machines so you can see where each point closing event and spark plug voltage peak happens. IIRC there's 3 settings on the scope, display, raster, and super impose. Makes it easy to spot worn distributor cams, loose shaft bushings and advance mechanisms.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Ted J
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Posted: 29 Oct 2017 at 12:46pm |
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Brian, I've been looking for one of those old Sun machines for a long time. You'd have to go to an auction of some old guy who ran a shop out of his garage to get lucky.
Don, I set em with a feeler gauge first and then check them with the dwell meter. I've always had good luck that way.
As per your question, it shouldn't change the dwell, "theoretically" at least. Too many variables, but I really doubt that it would, if everything is in 'good' shape.
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
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DougS
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Posted: 29 Oct 2017 at 2:48pm |
Cam wear may affect the dwell/gap ratio, but I suspect that it would take a lot of wear to make much of a difference.
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HudCo
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Posted: 29 Oct 2017 at 5:42pm |
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i use a dwell meter when i can , sure makes a differance even if you check a few lobes with the feeler gauge the dwell meter will still make it better hard to beat the vacuumm gauge over the timing light some times. i still have a perfect operating 1160 sun machine that i like to use, and put all the scanners and hand held stuff away
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DiyDave
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Posted: 29 Oct 2017 at 6:04pm |
 drobCA wrote:
my 2c sez more power to whoever keeps these old beauties running decent by whatever means they prefer.I'd gauge most people feel similar, but I don't want to dwell on it.
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You just HAD to TACH that on, dintcha???
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 29 Oct 2017 at 6:20pm |
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Don,
I still use feeler gauge. I don't think I could run or understand a dwell meter! Had poor spark on the WD the other day. used a Emory board to dust them and a dollar bill to clean them.Eyeballed them at .020! Fired right up once we had sparky!
Regards,
Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 29 Oct 2017 at 6:21pm
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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DougS
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Posted: 29 Oct 2017 at 6:40pm |
On a low RPM 4 cylinder engine it doesn't matter that much. Too high a dwell might cause the coil to heat more than it needs to, but I don't think it would be an issue. You had to use a dwell meter on those old GM cars before they switched to the HE system. Nonetheless a dwell meter is not hard to use. I'm looking around on Amazon and I see some for about $30. Edit: One advantage of setting the dwell is the points get set almost exact each time. If you set the points exactly the same each time your timing won't follow your gap error and change in proportion with it.
Edited by DougS - 29 Oct 2017 at 6:56pm
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Don(MO)
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Posted: 30 Oct 2017 at 4:29pm |
What I was trying to find out was who still use's a dwell meter, but thanks for all the input. Here's part of the question I asked. I got to thinking if you guys just set the points with feeler gauge and call it good or more over am I one of the last old guys left that uses a dwell meter to set the points. Please don't make me feel old and say to just use a feeler gauge. lmao
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3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.
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Ted J
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Posted: 30 Oct 2017 at 5:22pm |
Don, wish I was up at the farm so I could take a picture of my dwell meter for ya. I bought it somewhere in the late 50s or the early 60s. I use it all the time, but that don't make me old.......my birthday does that.  Using one on the Chevy V-8s was absolutely necessary at the time, cause they had that little window you'd lift up. Made it SO easy to do.
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
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JW in MO
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Posted: 30 Oct 2017 at 7:50pm |
You see Don I use a feeler gauge to set the points and everything else. So now several months later I burn up the points or condenser I buy a new set and start all over. Now if I take it to you and you set everything and several years later it burns up I get to bring it back to you for warranty cause you touched it last! Signed, John Q. Public
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Maximum use of available resources!
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Don(MO)
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Posted: 31 Oct 2017 at 7:52am |
JW in MO wrote:
You see Don I use a feeler gauge to set the points and everything else. So now several months later I burn up the points or condenser I buy a new set and start all over. Now if I take it to you and you set everything and several years later it burns up I get to bring it back to you for warranty cause you touched it last! Signed, John Q. Public |
OK to john Q. for you I will make a good deal on warranty. lmao
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3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Posted: 31 Oct 2017 at 12:34pm |
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I'd use a Dwell meter, but the only engines I have on the place with points are single cyl Kohler, B&S, Clinton, Wisconsin, Onan, Cushman. Those are the ones I can think of. I collect old small engines and stopped counting when I hit 50. Most of them are common dime a dozen. These days I watch for the orphans and odd balls...
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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DougS
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Posted: 31 Oct 2017 at 12:41pm |
If the points open 5 degrees (on the cam) later, which is a very small amount of turn, the engine timing will be off 10 degrees. Perhaps it doesn't matter that much on an old low-compression slow RPM engine, but it can be significant on a more efficient engine. Dwell is more accurate.
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