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OK,a few "what Ifs" if I may,,,,

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desertjoe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: OK,a few "what Ifs" if I may,,,,
    Posted: 22 Jan 2020 at 10:11pm

 I been thinkin I need a Tig welder,,,Clap   I read somewhere, where you can fashion a Tig set up by using an ARC welder for power,,,?? Any truth to that or no,,??
 Reason I ask is I have an opportunity to latch onto one of those Lincoln Model AC-225-S arc welder with the red cathedral top in like new condition. He also has a brand new  200 amp Tig Torch WeldMark brand air cooled.
 Yes,,No,,,,,HF has brand new ones from China for bout $350 but,,,,,,I can get into the Lincoln for $100,,,,yes,,,NO,,?


Edited by desertjoe - 22 Jan 2020 at 10:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2020 at 10:16pm
what dos a "tig" do that other don't?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 2:07am
Originally posted by shameless dude shameless dude wrote:

what dos a "tig" do that other don't?


   Well Shameless,,,when the "shore Nuff" welders on here wakes up,, maybe they can tell you,,,,,WinkWink
 I'm bettin ole Thad will tell us both,,,,Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john(MI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 2:11am
I've used both at my friends house, I would go with the Lincoln.  Welds are lots more solid that the tig.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 5:16am
Originally posted by shameless dude shameless dude wrote:

what dos a "tig" do that other don't?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 5:35am
Shameless a good tig welder can weld beer cans butt to butt and do a right purdy job of it.
Joe people do make tig welders from big stick welders. It’s called scratch start tig welding. I’ve never done it nor do I know how they control temp (footpedal) or what. I’ve seen mostly the old big AC/DC welders used.
I’m very interested in the info you gather for this.
A good friend of mine ran the local welding shop here. He was gonna teach me to tig but sadly he was killed in a work related accident.

Edited by Thad in AR. - 23 Jan 2020 at 5:37am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 5:39am
Spell check sure doesn’t like the word tig. So tig tig tig tig tig. See how they like that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 5:43am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 6:38am
I've got one of those..Lincoln Model AC-225-S arc welders... best $250 I ever spent, 25+ years ago ! I ONLY use brand name E7018AC rods and have weld rider decks to snowplows. I was going to convert to DC( have parts) but not needed, bottom line.
It's an AC only welder so not TIG or MIG, those use DC. Maybe (?) the TIG/MIG adapter has AC to DC conversion in it ?
TIG means Tungsten Inert Gas
MIG means Metal Inert Gas
or so I'e been told..
Unless you've got a lot of time and a NEED for TIG, farm out the job to a pro shop,cheaper in the long run.TIG needs gas bottles, ultra clean metal,patience and steady hands...

I've only need 2-3 TIG jobs, bartered them off to neighbour as he's a PRO at it !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimCNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 7:47am
Nope, it DOESN'T like "tig," but TIG is not a problem... (cuz "tig" ain't a word, but TIG is a recognized acronym, similar to how "led" IS a word but LED is an acronym.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 8:12am
Ive used a tig at Maytag before in refridgerator progets, Jay is right , gotta be clean and a gas is a must- you can weld very thin metals and they do a fancy job , but never really seen the need for one at my place in 25 years that a mig wont do, but that's just me
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 8:57am
Boy they sure lay down a beautiful bead.  Great for aluminum. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 9:12am

 Well,,Many Thanks to all for the good info Guys,,,,Clap After more readin,,it seems TIG requires a DC machine and this one is an AC machine and as ole Jay states a "conversion" AC to DC kit is available,,but Chit,, then you start goin round and round spendin money to get to where you want to be. This Lincoln AC-225 is in great original condition but I already gots another 225 amp arc welder,,,,
 The dude texted me and is wantin to trade the old Lincoln for a mig gas rig and I only gots 4 of those,,,,, I may trade "one" of the Campbell Hausfeld Pro 140 Gas Migs I got from Home depot,,,and,,,and,,one was Free as in "Free" as some of ya'll might remember,,,,,WinkWink
 I'll prolly go ahead and trade for the Lincoln AC225 as it is in really nice shape and I only gots one arc welder,,,,LOL kinda like tools,,,you can't have just one,,,,LOL
 OH,,and By the way,,,,Thad,,I finally did buy a Pro 175 Lincoln mig, 220 VAC that sure does weld great,!!,,,glad I followed your advise to get a quality machine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 9:21am
Jay, I don't know what your ARC WELDERS are, AC or DC... I had the LincolnAC225  25 years aog.. 20 years ago I bought a Miller DC and will NEVER use an AC machine again... Before you get the AC Lincoln 225, try welding at the guys bench.. If your happy with that, OK... If you are familiar with a DC machine, I doubt you want the AC. .... an AC machine will weld, but nothing like using a DC.

Edited by steve(ill) - 23 Jan 2020 at 9:22am
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC-WI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 10:38am
There are places for AC welds, but about 98% of the time, mine is sitting on DC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 12:10pm

 Hey JC,,it lookin more and more like I should have a DC machine so I can run everybody's favorite , 7018 Low Hydrogen,,,?????Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 12:17pm
I'd have  a DC machine, IF I could justify it. Only make 2-3 trailers a year plus 'things' around here...I can make good, strong welds with 7018ac rods all day long.
I did try a 'flux core wire welder' ( they're DC ) but after a morning of &^&^*&^* around, used my 25+ years old AC welder and got the job DONE.
If I need ultra precise, fancy welding  I just ask neighbour.....

Jay
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabinhollow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 12:53pm
I have got a Lincoln TIG 200 Square Wave
AC or DC, TIG or stick.
Got it setup for aluminum and that is all I use it for.
Looking at a Millermatic 255 for my next welder.
My Miller 252 is starting to show its age.
I make some items that have 100's feet of weld on them.
One order last year had over 700' of weld, all 16ga steel.
Anyone that wants to work on their welding skill, I got 30+ sticks of 5/16 and 3/8 solid, cut into 200+ pieces, ready to weld.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chaskaduo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 1:54pm
JC and Ted might take ya up on that just to get near some extra heat. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tadams(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 1:57pm
I think Joe's got money he want to spend
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabinhollow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by chaskaduo chaskaduo wrote:

JC and Ted might take ya up on that just to get near some extra heat. Wink


It's 65 in my shop today, plus 20' to the right of the welding table, is a big wood stove and 20' to left is a pellet stove.  I could also turn on the powder coating oven, you can stand up in it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 2:37pm
re: ...I got 30+ sticks of 5/16 and 3/8 solid, cut into 200+ pieces, ready to weld.

if you hadn't cut them up, you wouldn't need to weld them back together Wink

cut 200 times and STILL too short....LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chaskaduo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 3:05pm
GOOD POKE Jay. LOLThumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 4:42pm
TIG welding can be precice and concentrated heat in a small area which for light material works great . 
I made up plating racks for a special project in shop where i worked - welding 1" x 1/2" SS frame with 8 but welds per rack . As could not have any berries or contamination to rack TIG welding was the only way to go . Did try wire feed but small area and heat needed TIG worked best. 
 DC machine with a high frequency unit with contactor for full amp to tungsten. Using a old Lincoln DC upright electric motor generator unit . Worked great for the job .
 Then replaced that unit with a Miller 304 unit with water cooled TIG torch - with this unit I can TIG , MIG , SMAW weld and have good control of all functions . 
  My Pow-Con welder will TIG also but the scratch start ends up burning the tungstens where a high frequency start allows you to set distance of tungsten to base metal and then apply arc power . 
 Once you start TIG welding you wonder how you ever got by without it , just like when you go to MIG welding you wonder how you ever stick welded so many years . 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 4:47pm
I have my Pow-Con welder I bought back in 1988 or so and then got the Miller 304 for the industrial shop I was foreman in - the 304 miller became unit of choice and when shop closed I bought the unit from company . 
 Son has been using it in his fabrication business since 2003 with no problems . Now as he is setting up a 2nd shop he just bought 4 - Miller 304 machines and wire feed heads for them , in fact has 2 heads that are duel feeders so can run different wire sizes on each feeder and select as needed .

Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabinhollow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 6:22pm
Jay, welding them back together is the fun part.
Sometimes I will weld 2-3 or 10 pieces together and then cut them apart, just so I can weld them together again. The right way!!
"Still to short" Isn't that what a female would say, even after you had that enhancement surgery.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 9:29pm
Like Coke, I have more than one welder.... Actually, I have at least... uh... lessee.... twelve... uh... mebbie thirteen... I'd hafta go count again.

I have AC and DC stick welders, and at least ten different types of welding rods, including high-nickel cast rods, hardfacing, and at times, even some silicon-bronze.  Several of those are engine driven machines, and one of the engine-drivens is both CC (stick/tig) and CV (wire-feed MIG).

I have several MIG welders, with four different types of wire.  Two are Miller CPs... one is a CP-200, the other is a CP-300.  (Both the CPs and the SRH-333 are 3-phase machines that have been converted to single-phase)

I have one HF arc starter, bottle, and foot controller unit that will allow me to run TIG from my Miller SRH-333.

I have an Airco Heliwelder (a TIG) with HF arc starting/stabilization, liquid cooling, footpedal control, purge timers, etc.,

When stick welding, one can use AC or DC, and the success you get is dependant upon having the proper rod, grounding quality, polarity setting, and power range for the rod and position type.  There are rods specifically for AC use, and rods specifically for DC use.  Crossing them assures that a good weld will be difficult, and not as successful as using the proper rod.  For what it's worth, 95% of my stick welding is done with DC, and when I'm stick welding, it's rarely thinner than 3/8", and the rod is no sissy.

Tig welding differs from stick and MIG in a very basic way-  the arc does NOT exist between the filler and parent metal.

Using a TIG, is more like gas torch welding, than arc welding... you start the torch, heating the parent metal, then bring in the rod and drip a little in, then move.  Imagine that you're doing it with an acetylene torch and a piece of steel rod... same thing, but when you don't have enough heat, rather than messing with gas valves, you push down with your foot, or turn a knob on the torch with your thumb.  If it's too much heat, you back off with the footpedal or knob.

When welding steel, you see the metal change color from plain, to red, and eventually you get a puddle.  When welding aluminum, you see... aluminum... and then... a puddle... that  appears immediately, grows rapidly, and falls onto your shoe.  Aluminum passes heat several hundred times FASTER than steel, so you have to get in there close, kick the heat on, bring it up HARD... and as soon as there's a puddle, back off, and MOVE... so that the area you added filler to cools and solidifies... and you keep the torch arc moving forward (the heat is going that way), and you have to constantly balance that arc power in order to keep from heating too much, and melting through.

TIG is great for exotic metals... stainless, titanium, as well as brazing (brass or silicon bronze), because you don't have to do anything major aside from swap electrodes (30 seconds) and turn a few knobs, grab the right rod, and go.  That little TIG torch gives you the ability to get really good results in a really small spot.

But don't go cheap.  People that get frustrated with different types of welding, fail because they either have a machine that isn't set up or maintained properly, or it's a generic cheapie that's designed to sell, not weld.

The best way to go about any sort of new welding style, is to find a friend who's already using that sort of a rig, and ask for a test-drive and some pointers.  Sitting down at an already-set-up station, with scraps of known-size-and-alloy, where the owner has his system set up for it, pretty much guarantees that you'll get a winner bead right out of the gate, and after that, setting up some other machine will be MUCH easier, because you'll KNOW how it's supposed to perform.

If you can stick weld, you can MIG.  If you can GAS weld, you can TIG.  If you can pick your nose, ask questions, be patient, and find the right friends, you can learn to do all the above.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ted J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2020 at 8:24pm
If you want a road trip Joe, I've got a couple extra Lincoln Tombstone DC welders....  I could maybe see clear to barter one of em.....Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2020 at 2:06am

 Well,,THANKS,,Dave Kamp,,that was a great Write-up for the person that is contemplating switchin to a TIG set up. I do not do enough of the weldin that requires the high quality of the Tig weldin,,,,most of mine is oilfield pipe weldin for mostly structual applications that the arc welder is better suited for. I like the LONG leads of the arc welder much better than the short ones you see with the Tig machines.
 Incidently I went ahead and bought the "Tombstone" Lincoln as it is in such great shape and and looks almost new,,,Plus it was so cheap,,,,,BUT,,I do NOT like them little bitty hard rubber wheels and my first "mod" is goin to be some bigger pneumatic tires from,,,,,,,,,,HF,,,,,WinkWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2020 at 3:11am
wow...thanks ya'll for splain'in this to me and ole Joe!
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