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Off subject— hay question
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allisbred View Drop Down
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Joined: 28 Mar 2015
Location: Hanover Pa
Points: 1011 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allisbred Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Off subject— hay question
    Posted: 19 Aug 2019 at 3:02pm
Anybody growing canary grass for hay? Was thinking about over seeding fading alfalfa stands here in south central pa. Was looking for an annual grass that will take 4 cuttings a year with a good fertilization plan. This will be intended for horses.
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DiyDave View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Gambrills, MD
Points: 54679 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2019 at 5:58pm
Just don't make hay after a frost, and you should be OK...Wink
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Joined: 20 Sep 2009
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Points: 8390 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2019 at 6:04pm
Yup the frost makes it toxic and will kill the animals
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Joined: 28 Mar 2015
Location: Hanover Pa
Points: 1011 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allisbred Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2019 at 7:59pm
Thanks for the link— kind of testing waters here. Been having trouble keeping late cutting grasses clean without having to spray hay fields twice a year. Only grass that stays clean and makes tonnage for me has been K-32 fescue and that’s tough to get first cutting in dry hay before heading out. Can’t sell Orchard/Timothy w/crabgrass and foxtail to horse people and with all the rain here the last 5 years was thinking about giving the canary grass a try. Any of you guys have tips for planting pro/cons. I will be doing roll bales and small squares with an Allis hooked in front😉.
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DiyDave View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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Points: 54679 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2019 at 4:37am
Another type would be Teff.  Google to find out about it...Wink
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Joined: 28 Jul 2019
Location: Versailles, OH
Points: 164 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rhoadesy_65 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2019 at 5:44am
We typically seed a blend of orchard grass and Alfalfa here in West-Central Ohio. I buy Alforex seeds, this year using their 529 (persistence and yield) alfalfa at 20lb/ac. And seeding their "Optima" orchard grass at 4 lb/ acre. "Optima" is meant to be later maturity so that it is ready at the same time as alfalfa. The idea for us is as the alfalfa stand dies out over time the orchard grass will fill in the gaps. Sell this to cow and horse people, plus feed it to our own sheep.
Farmin' with 1981 7010 PD, 1983 6080, 1983 8010, Gleaner R42 in Darke County OH
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Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Points: 218 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bill2260 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2019 at 7:31am
I think the Prussic acid guy is confusing reed canary grass with sorghum Sudan grass.
Check with penn state extension specialist
Old varieties of reed canary have high alkaloid content which will reduce consumption.
Newer forage varieties have lower alkaloid content cattle consume plenty with no problems.
Have never heard of prussic acid problem in reed canary
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Points: 8804 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2019 at 10:30pm
Yea we get fo fox tail to
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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Points: 22825 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2019 at 12:24pm
I have Reeds Canary grass in a waterway thru my 3.5 acre CRP patch I wish it was all gone. It has taken over nearly half of the patch that was seeded to warm season prairie grasses and wild flowers.
 This spring I fixed a good part of it, temporarily anyway. I mowed it off close the first of April, waited 2 weeks and sprayed with glyphosate. Now I can see flowers and bluestem growing out in that part, where I haven't in several years.
 The problem might be the billions of seed it left behind the last few years?
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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Joined: 28 Mar 2015
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Points: 1011 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allisbred Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2019 at 9:30am
So I took the alfalfa out Saturday with a a disc harrow set at only 4” depth rough setting, then going back over at fine finish to level. This should help hold seed bed from washing out because they don’t recommend a cover crop. Seed will be here tomorrow, went with a newer variety “Cheifton” low alkaloid. Planning to use the IH 5100 SB special drill with the small seed box just dropping through w/out the tubes. Only benefit will be the press wheels I guess. Little concerned it may bridge and not feed through? My local extension office wasn’t much help. Any planting advice?
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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Points: 54679 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2019 at 5:37pm
If you are straight dropping the seed, don't do it on a windy day!Wink
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Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Points: 218 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bill2260 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2019 at 7:22pm
Culltipack it at least once
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Joined: 18 Jul 2018
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Points: 8992 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote modirt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2019 at 7:35am
Reeds Canary is some bizarre stuff......we have used it for years on waterways. It will create a root mass that will hold the soil together and once established, really slows down runoff. In doing so, it often catches tons (litterally) of topsoil. Ditch below mom and dad's house has probably gained 2 feet or more in the past 30 years. Spreads by rhizomes as much or more than by seed. Old way to establish (and can still be used) was to simply sprig in some roots. Dig up a clump and move it where you want it to grow and stand back. As such, in the wrong place, it is considered a noxious weed because it will take over.

I baled a waterway once.....cut it late....seed heads even with fenders on a JD 3020. Single raked it and still could do no better when baling than wide open in 1st gear and even then had to feather the clutch at times to keep it from slugging down. Bales dropping about ever 10 feet. Cattle and calves would lay on it, but wouldn't eat it.

Found a link to it last year from some University back east......they were looking for a substitute for Timothy for horse hay......Timothy having issues with some type of rust or something that was reducing yields.

They found that Reeds Canary.....when cut early BEFORE seed heads appeared, was as nutritious and palatable as Timothy. But let it go too late and palatability went south.

If growing it on the wet soils it is most adapted to, problem will be finding a time when soils are dry enough to support equipment BEFORE seed heads appear. But if your soils are well drained (anything that would grow alfalfa should work), it may be worth a try. But do cut it early. That also leads to cutting it often.....as in multiple cuttings. If you keep the fertility up, it should survive and thrive.


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modirt View Drop Down
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Joined: 18 Jul 2018
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Points: 8992 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote modirt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2019 at 7:39am
And despite what anybody else says, I'd still want to have a nurse crop to hold the soil together. Maybe fall seeded oats, which should winter kill.
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Joined: 28 Mar 2015
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Points: 1011 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allisbred Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2019 at 8:58am
Modirt—-I am thinking same as you on all subjects— only doing 6 acres as a test this year. I am leaving the waterway as is with Kentucky 32 because that has worked out very well on the wetter soils (newer variety as well). Can get alfalfa off 1st of May most of the time on this field so that will be a plus. Fertility is very high in P&K, adding a little nitrogen even though the alfalfa should have some residual left, PH is a little high just a little over 7.0. Timothy has been a struggle, only holding about 3-4 years lately due to fungus here around Gettysburg. I really wanted some oats in there deep to hold the ground but that seemed like a must not due because of the long generation time for canary grass. I figure some of the alfalfa/orchard/Timothy may come back because I’m not burning off and light depth tilling. Penn state just e-mailed this morning and suggested using the large seed box for some reason? Drill has 7in spacing which I’m not crazy about and calibration will be tough as not shown in drill manual. I appreciate all responses— lots of knowledge in this group! Kevin        PS—neighbor watched me rip out the alfalfa and thinks I’m crazy, but like seeing the 185 weighted working hard!
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Joined: 03 Nov 2011
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Points: 2490 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2019 at 9:15am
Originally posted by modirt modirt wrote:

And despite what anybody else says, I'd still want to have a nurse crop to hold the soil together. Maybe fall seeded oats, which should winter kill.

From what I've read it looks like canary grass would crowd everything else out.
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Points: 1361 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allisrutledge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2019 at 10:23am
I don't know about canary grass but with Bermuda you need a fine seedbed cultipacked firm prior to broadcasting then cultipack again. 1/4 inch depth at most. Use a herd seeder to broadcast. Good luck
Allis Chalmers still exist in my mind and barns
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