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Tcmtech 
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Location: Minot ND
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 Posted: 22 Oct 2016 at 12:33am |
 CrestonM wrote:
That's just terrible... I hate it that something on here bothered you so much it made you want to crush the Allis's... I hope I wasn't one of the ones  |
well.... since you asked. 
Mostly it's the overall demeanor of an enthusiast or a group of enthusiasts and how they treat or accept other people looking to learn more about what it is they like so much. It's very much like a church and its congregation in a way and how their actions or lack thereof will sway a person's views of what they as an individual may contribute or refuse to contribute toward the goals of the group on their behalf.
Sort of like this. A new guy walks in the door of your big orange church one day with questions. Is he welcomed by the majority and shown what the church holds as its beliefs to be true or does he get a highly judgemental insanely biased run over by one or two of the attending overly righteous fools trying to appear to be the unanimous voice of judgment for the congregation?
I came here with questions and an open mind and tried to share my knowledge and experiences only to be run down repeatedly by a few fools hell bent on taking everything thing I say, that does not perfectly match their beliefs out of context to be highly confrontational direct attacks on them, so that they can run with it in front of everybody to apparently glorify their self perceived superiority over me while the majority typically do nothing but have a few members whisper to me 'don't worry about them. Everyone knows they're idiots and thanks for standing up to them.' then go back into public silence and hiding. 
Sorry, but although I still attend here I now never expect a post with a comment, question or observation I make to not be on the edge of being torn apart in order to start a flame war so a few specific fools can feel superior over nothing while the majority silently watch on.
Maybe the majority here are the greatest and nicest people in the world but I don't know. So far every shred of experience here has given me every reason to feel the garbage can deserves my donations to their cause more than they do.
That's how I have came to the conclusion at this point that I would rather scrap my equipment then pass it onto the orange church congregation to better others so to speak, and thank you for having the decency to at least ask why I now feel as I do.
Anyway, everyone feel free to sit quietly while the same tired tiny group of fools (or possibly one with multiple proxy accounts/names) do their/his damnedest to take as much of this as far out of context as possible to once again justify tearing into me so that they/he can show everyone I'm really the pompous self righteous know it all egotistical unhumble thread drifting bhah blah blah terrible person whatever.
I've come to expect no less.
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jaybmiller
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
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Posted: 22 Oct 2016 at 6:01am |
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Well, I guess I'm 'colour blind', As I've had both Ford 2N and 8Ns as well as a Cockshutt and the 4 D-14s. Each has it's pros and cons..like WHO thought having a distributor 'up front' was a good idea,really(Ford...) or the 50cent PTO lever O-ring IN the D-14 that means tearing the tractor down to fix...(one day..x 3, maybe...)
I understand 'brand loyalty' but I don't knock everything other than 'orange',life's too short. As long as it starts,runs, works in the field and gets dirt on it ALL tractors are great !!
Yup, colour blind....
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Dan73
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Posted: 22 Oct 2016 at 7:48am |
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Tcmtech I read your post and thought right off quick that is why I very seldom go into the political section. I will say that I mostly read the d serries tractor posts because I own 2 of them and they are what I know. Other threads I often thumb through looking at the photos more then reading because I know I won't know the answers most of the time. I will say I know I am hard on JD and on ford. But I intend it in good fun teasing not as a personal attack. I hope that I haven't contributed to your bad experience on this site and if I have I am sorry it was never my intention.
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Tcmtech
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Location: Minot ND
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Posted: 22 Oct 2016 at 9:21am |
Dan73 wrote:
Tcmtech I read your post and thought right off quick that is why I very seldom go into the political section. I will say that I mostly read the d serries tractor posts because I own 2 of them and they are what I know. Other threads I often thumb through looking at the photos more then reading because I know I won't know the answers most of the time. I will say I know I am hard on JD and on ford. But I intend it in good fun teasing not as a personal attack. I hope that I haven't contributed to your bad experience on this site and if I have I am sorry it was never my intention. |
I expect that sort of antics in the political section. 
For me what rubbed me the wrong way too many times was the being blatantly getting attacked in basic threads no different than this one because someone decided to take some generalized comment I made, Vs anyone else's, that was based on personal experience and or rationalized logic as a personal insult against all of AC when none was ever implied that set up the bad vibe for me.
As with you I'm a multi brand collector/user and I tend to only post to topics I feel I have some experience/knowledge/semi relevant opinion on but still that has lead to every detail of my life, my knowledge, my experience, my social attributes, my income/wealth/life assets, my employment past and present, my education, my years of owning anything AC related, my family, my gratitude all being called into question outrightly attacked and judged to not being sufficient to participate here by a few fools while the majority here said and did nothing about it other than watch. The only consolations I got during those events were from a few who sent me private messages to say those guys are idiots that should be kicked out for such acts and to thank me for standing up to them since so few others will.
That's what left the bad taste in my mouth about AC collectors/enthusiasts. It wasn't just the outright nonsensical attacks by a few (or possibly one running multiple proxy accounts to look like more than one person all agreeing on what a bad person I am) that bothered me as much as the overall lack of open willing good stewardship of the majority to keep that sort of actions on the forum from happening.
Thank you for asking and hearing me and my opinions out. It does help to know some here do want to know about what drives newer members off or what makes them stay. It does help change the weighting of my views of the forum a bit.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 22 Oct 2016 at 10:13am |
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Tcmtech,
Well I read your posts above and am not sure I can help in anyway to make things any better on this site? Not sure many of us have much control of what is written or posted.
I was new once too. I looked at this site for a year before I started posting. I did not like the pulling forum section and or the political section. So I chose not to go there very often or at all.
But the farm equipment section has a lot of interest to me and I have met and talked to a lot of folks that have come to be friends.
I have received a lot of help on AC projects and hopefully have helped some others too?
BTW I do own a Ford too!:)
Regards,
Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 22 Oct 2016 at 10:14am
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Tcmtech
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Posted: 22 Oct 2016 at 12:47pm |
Sugarmaker wrote:
Tcmtech,
Well I read your posts above and am not sure I can help in anyway to make things any better on this site? Not sure many of us have much control of what is written or posted.
I was new once too. I looked at this site for a year before I started posting. I did not like the pulling forum section and or the political section. So I chose not to go there very often or at all.
But the farm equipment section has a lot of interest to me and I have met and talked to a lot of folks that have come to be friends.
I have received a lot of help on AC projects and hopefully have helped some others too?
BTW I do own a Ford too!:)
Regards,
Chris
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I'm more disappointed than mad. I now know who the trolls/troll are/is. It just gave me a good long reason to question the overall membership of the forum for a while. I've never been on forum where a member can be ganged up on with zero justified provocation other than having given a technical opinion before and no one so much as lifted a finger to directly do anything about it. If anything during those events the getting PM's from people saying they agreed with me and were glad I was standing up to the accusations rather than give direct help or intervention in a way was more of a insult than anything. Near silent support from apparent cowards doesn't score points with me. 
Anyway, Yea we have a 9N that been in the family all my life. It was grandpas go to tractor when I was a kid. We flat out wore it out! Once Grandpa and Grandma moved to town and dad inherited it I went through it from the ground up on a full restore and update of sorts.
Yea as everyone says. They are underpowered and all around poorly designed by modern standards and expectations. Too fast in 1st gear too slow in high with too little power to do much of anything but bare basic work everywhere in between! Still beat using a team of horses though! 
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shameless (ne)
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Posted: 22 Oct 2016 at 10:39pm |
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i'll bet he's talking about me!
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Dan73
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Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 4:57am |
shameless (ne) wrote:
i'll bet he's talking about me!
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Well Dale I was going to ask what you did. But after thinking about it some I will just say if there is something you did that makes you fell it was you then you should address that. Having been here long enough I know you are one of the guys who doesn't mean it as a personal attack on people but you need to be understanding with the new guys who have not read enough to know you yet...
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Gary Burnett
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Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 5:38am |
shameless (ne) wrote:
i'll bet he's talking about me!
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And Hey what about him insulting my horses?
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DiyDave
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Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 5:59am |
You gotta take the good with the bad, that's life, grow a thicker skin...
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shameless (ne)
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Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 8:17am |
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dunno Dan....if I did say something or not....guess he'll hafta enlighten me! but you know....someone might pi$$ me off in here too (might) and if they do, i'll prolly just move on....no biggy!
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Acfarm
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Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 9:31pm |
Note to self: Off-color posts cause chaos! XD
~Warren
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CrestonM
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Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 9:38pm |
Acfarm wrote:
Note to self: Off-color posts cause chaos! XD
~Warren |
Yep. I've found that out before! Lol
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Tcmtech
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Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 10:01pm |
Acfarm wrote:
Note to self: Off-color posts cause chaos! XD
~Warren |
You don't even need to be off color. just question something simple basic and how it was designed and try and point out how it is easily improved on with modern technology.
That and don't say anything without the utmost revere and humility to the AC god. (or whichever pompous dumbass troll is near.)
Provoking a unsolicited unwarranted attack is not hard here. You just need to have the right idiots for an audience.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 7:56am |
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Keep in mind that you are dealing with humans! All the traits are here.
I dont think the AC tractors are any better than others and there are many things in the designs that could have been improved.
I had a old guy (95) that would stop by and visit. He never had a good word to say about Allis tractors even though I was in the midst of restoring two of them.
Kind of irritated me at first. But most of the areas he didnt like on the old WD's were points where some other tractors had better designs or preformed better. In most cases he was right. But I still went on and finished the family tractors and have had a lot of fun with them.
I think most folks would like any tractor make if that is what Dad or grandpa had or they grew up on it or worked on it.
Some folks do go beyond it being just a mechanical work machine.
Just rambling.
Yea off color tractors! A lot of us have them and enjoy those too.
OK, I own a International TD6 dozer too, there I said it!:)
Regards,
Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Dan73
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Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 5:03pm |
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Yup Chris alot of people take it personally because they have seen these tractors in use on their farms for 60 plus years in some cases. I have seen those old timers I think there is one in every town. One of them stops into the shop where I take my tractors. I finally told him that my allis might not be perfect but it has done alot of work over the years and has out lasted alot of newer better or easier tractors to run. Yes a big part of why I am rebuilding my d17 is that it was my grandfather's and my late uncles seems like it has earned the respect to be rebuilt and keep on making hay.
I can understand how a modern tractor might have improvements but I can also understand how some of those modern improvements might not run as long. Trade offs design is all about trade offs.
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CrestonM
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Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 6:03pm |
I'm lucky to have friends near me that are both green and red, but none take offense. Everything we say to each other is all in fun. For instance...my favorite time was last December, combining Milo. A green friend of mine was there to watch. I had replaced the reel driveshaft on the 60A that goes through the bin, and the nut that holds the sheave on worked loose, and the reel wouldn't turn. I didn't have a big enough wrench, but my friend did. The following conversation took place:
Friend: A John Deere guy always has the right tools on hand. Me: Yeah, you John Deere guys need all those tools. Friend: Well what are we working on now??? Ah ha! John Deere tools save the day again!!
Everyone had a good laugh that day. He did admit he was very impressed how good the combine was doing, and how well the B that was powering it was doing, since the field was a little muddy in places. Never got stuck, but came pretty close.
Edited by CrestonM - 24 Oct 2016 at 6:05pm
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DiyDave
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Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 6:35pm |
some people would complain, if you hung 'em with a new rope, too...
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Tcmtech
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Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 7:22pm |
Dan73 wrote:
I can understand how a modern tractor might have improvements but I can also understand how some of those modern improvements might not run as long. Trade offs design is all about trade offs. |
It all depends on what is being changed and how. A lot of the modifications I have done to our equipment over the years was bases in simply taking fiddly hard to work on, hard to source or expensive to source components and updating those problem areas to use a more common easy to find easy to work with and more durable replacement parts or eliminate a weak point all together. The last Mod job I did ws the inner PTO shaft support bearing on our MF 2745. The OEM bearing ran directly on the PTO shaft and ws well know for chewing it up then self destructing eventually leading the total failure of the entire PTO gear and shaft set of whcih out did.
The OEM bearing was $100+ but a common dual race heavy duty roller unit with the same OD and a ID that was ~.030" smaller than the stock PTO shaft was ~$30. No brainer on the why and what behind that design mod.
My point is, not all mods to newer designs or components that use newer and in many ways far superior materials are steps back in the overall operation and function of the machine. Many are in fact proper fixes to weak or poorly made original designs. Fabrication and materials technology has came a long way in the last 60 - 80+ years!
Edited by Tcmtech - 24 Oct 2016 at 7:23pm
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Tcmtech
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Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 7:31pm |
CrestonM wrote:
I'm lucky to have friends near me that are both green and red, but none take offense. Everything we say to each other is all in fun.
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Same here. I get called on a few times a year to help people out with fixing odd stuff as well and most of it is because I can do the numbers and engineering plus actual fabrication to replicate or improve a old design or hard/expensive component to use a nwer and likely superior easy to locate modern one.
When it comes to making something old work better and be more functional I am totally color blind to the brand. The only thing I see is how the old whatever it was was suposed to work and how to either make it work the same with updated parts or modify it to do what the machine's owner needs it to do.
I would bet I am the only guy here that has has ever redone a Farmall M to eliminate the stock ~12 GPM 1000 PSI live hydraulics pump ($700 - $800+ for a replacement) to have now a 25 - 30 GPM 2500 PSI unit (<$200 brand new) that if you walked by the tractor you would never know it was there.
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Dan73
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Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 7:40pm |
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Nothing wrong with upgrades. I added live hydraulics to my d17 so I could run my accumulator. On my d15 I built it from an industrial without a 3 point and an ag with one. I didn't like the Draft control for what I do so I ended up just adding a hydraulic valve to the loader pump I like that better because the 3 point stays right where I put it. I also put a joystick on the loader soo much easier to use. I like that M upgrade sounds cool.
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CrestonM
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Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 7:46pm |
Tcmtech wrote:
My point is, not all mods to newer designs or components that use newer and in many ways far superior materials are steps back in the overall operation and function of the machine. Many are in fact proper fixes to weak or poorly made original designs. Fabrication and materials technology has came a long way in the last 60 - 80+ years!
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Exactly!
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CrestonM
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Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 7:48pm |
Tcmtech wrote:
I would bet I am the only guy here that has has ever redone a Farmall M to eliminate the stock ~12 GPM 1000 PSI live hydraulics pump ($700 - $800+ for a replacement) to have now a 25 - 30 GPM 2500 PSI unit (<$200 brand new) that if you walked by the tractor you would never know it was there. |
That sounds like a fun project! I'd like to update my B. It works, but it could be better.
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Tcmtech
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Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 9:45pm |
CrestonM wrote:
That sounds like a fun project! I'd like to update my B. It works, but it could be better. |
I did it a few years ago and posted it over on the Red Power Magazine forum.. I tried finding it but there search system over there sucks worse than the one here.
Basically the front bolster on a Farmall M that supports everything ahead of the engine is hollow and not too difficult cut out so that a crankshaft driven pump can be stuffed in there.
A larger SAE A face or smaller SAE B face pump with side mounted ports fits in perfect without causing issues if a chain type coupler that has been cut down for minimal shaft lengths (basically the crankshaft and pump shaft need to sit nose to nose) so that there is room for bottom plate of the steering down shaft to swing past it.
Ours uses a old WD-9 front axle and power steering off a combine so that shaft on ours is not used. That gave me room to cheat and put a larger SAE B pump that sites right up against the bottom plate plus required a small spacer set under the radiator to fit.
Here's a picture of the first pump I put in. It worked for a little while but the spline shaft coupler stripped out and chewed up the front seal beyond repair so a new pump unit got putin shortly after. That's where the conversion to a chain coupler drive came in to fit the new pump that had keyed shaft instead of spline shaft in but to make it fit each half had to cut back to bare minimal to fit.
The system is set for ~1500 PSI so the new pump is running way under its maximum continuous rating.
As can be seen the front bolster is all hollow and nonstructural anywhere through the middle Also it's apparently cast steel making it easy to weld to as well!
I think the pump that in there now is rated for ~25 - 28 GPM @ 1500 RPM which makes the old loader as responsive as any modern tractor or skid steer! 
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CrestonM
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Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 10:01pm |
Cool!
That's the kind of modifying I like. Discreet, but really improves performance.
Edited by CrestonM - 24 Oct 2016 at 10:01pm
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