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DMiller 
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
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 Topic: Newer Old Trucks
Posted: 09 Jul 2022 at 7:12am |
Just a heads up for any that are EVEN considering buying a relatively Newer Truck for the Farm.
Shop I just Re-retired from guy I drove alongside was speaking of his old machine(2013) been sitting since JANUARY, awaiting a PCM(STILL NOT IN PARTS) from Western Star so has been using the old well worn beast I drove, unhappily. I tried to correct much of what ailed it after the last twit had driven it into the ground but was a losing battle. Currently it is on its FOURTH DPF unit where is beginning to load up again where will have to be exchanged($650) with a reman unit. Truck is a 2015 and two years OUT of warranty. Cartridges and components for the Converter and particulate control systems are same as the newer machines as well back to the 2010 machines, still Junk, still fail miserably and expensively and often.
IF Intend to buy a Used truck for a grain hauler or a Dump Truck for silage, any reason at all, find a decent 2007 or OLDER, as the new stuff will be sitting on yards broken where the old junk will still be making money. Unless EPA drops mandated requirement these systems cannot be deleted will be wasting your money.
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PaulB
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Rocky Ridge Md
Points: 5103
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Posted: 09 Jul 2022 at 11:45am |
Even better to find any vehicle Pre Computer. The latest & greatest is not needed for for part time use just hauling at harvest time. Although that is about like trying to convince people that a 150 HP cab tractor with front wheel assist is not needed to pull a hayrake.
In my younger days all of the grain haulers were late 40s, early 50s vintage trucks that would still get the job done. The most sophisticated technology was a vacuum operated 2 speed axle and the air conditioner was the cowl vent below the windshield. Most farmers had 1 somewhat new truck that was used for primary needs and a bunch of older truck for high demand times. Of course there wasn't the handouts available that had to be spent.
Edited by PaulB - 09 Jul 2022 at 12:27pm
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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DMiller
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 33967
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Posted: 09 Jul 2022 at 12:23pm |
Base engine electronics have a place, produce a good efficiency rate with less engine and finding shops to repair old mechanical systems or parts for those is really tightening.
Love my 180 when is not being a PITA, wish I had a FWA in a 200/220 series for my place is pretty iffy as to a 2wd as that 180. Been shopping for a FWA tractor close to four years now where most other brands demand HIGH $$$ for absolutely worn slick. My old KW is pretty well self explanatory as to electronic engines Cat built, can be a handful but also has Self Diagnostic code response and the electronics are pretty simple. After dealing with the old 3406/3408s, with mechanical injection, now trying to find anyone including Cummins that can rebuild a PT Pump adequately is tough.
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steve(ill)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 87819
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Posted: 09 Jul 2022 at 12:34pm |
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similar to a pickup truck.... Fuel injection was a major step forward from a carburetor when your trying to get it started at -10 degrees...
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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PaulB
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Location: Rocky Ridge Md
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Posted: 09 Jul 2022 at 12:43pm |
Just had my PT pump rebuilt for my 290 by CV diesel last summer. It gets better mileage that the truck I was running back in the 80s with all the same specs. It doesn't even produce any visible smoke when pushed hard. It will start un-aided down into the single digits. I have also had experience with many so called "newer" electronic diesels some good some bad. Biggest fault is no one can diagnose anything without a computer, then parts are terribly expensive. I've know of lots of Computer controlled trucks that have spent more time at the shop than in service. One local tractor shop had a rollback that after 5 years had less than 20,000 miles on it. They had to keep using their 2 old 70s vintage gas COEs to do pick up and delivery while the new truck was sitting. For part time use, the newest bells and whistles are not needed
Edited by PaulB - 09 Jul 2022 at 12:44pm
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Thad in AR.
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Arkansas
Points: 9656
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Posted: 09 Jul 2022 at 2:19pm |
 steve(ill) wrote:
similar to a pickup truck.... Fuel injection was a major step forward from a carburetor when your trying to get it started at -10 degrees... |
I completely agree and it seems to me that you didn’t see 300000 and 400000 mile motors very often in the carburetor days. That said, I don’t feel that fuel injection ages well. On my 83 Ford work truck the alternator, starter, fuel pump, master cylinder and water pump each cost very little compared to newer old trucks and each can be changed in short order compared to newer old trucks.
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steve(ill)
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Location: illinois
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Posted: 09 Jul 2022 at 3:51pm |
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if problems are that wide spread and EVERYONE knows it... im suprised that TRUCKING has not lobbied Congress and get things changed... Progress is GREAT... if it really is PROGRESS... If your moving Backward and its costing more money and LESS MPG.. why do it !!
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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DMiller
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 33967
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Posted: 09 Jul 2022 at 4:00pm |
Been argued, the science was argued, finally SC answered to the Power Stations but the Little Guys as Trucking companies do not carry as much weight, Currently or Yet.
Freight does not move, concrete does not get delivered, products come to a Shortage Standstill and MAYBE, just Maybe the powers that be will begin to listen. Unproved Guesstimation Science of what these systems perform, how many lives are affected Good or Bad are guessed at as NOBODY has Facts they can deliver. EPA has been OUT OF CONTROL with open legislating power for nearly six decades, now the tables swing and perhaps we can stop the crap shoots.
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Coke-in-MN
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Afton MN
Points: 41980
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Posted: 09 Jul 2022 at 5:21pm |
Truckers have lobbied but when Cal sets the rules for the rest of the nation you know there is a problem . Seems their Tier 3 and now Tier 4 rules changed many thing and the NEW Push is plug in trucks - after all long haul trucking between charging stations will cut pollution but only add a couple days to delivery - or like the Pony Express require relay stations ot change out power unit or battery backs . Afraid the days of the Old fuel injection 4 stroke or the 2 stroke screaming Detroit's is long gone . So that power unit to haul from field to elevator now is a $100,000 unit that requires a electronics tech first then a parts replacer / not a mechanic to make it run again other than in limp mode
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Life lesson: If you’re being chased by a lion, you’re on a horse, to the left of you is a giraffe and on the right is a unicorn, what do you do? You stop drinking and get off the carousel.
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shameless dude
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Joined: 10 Apr 2017
Location: east NE
Points: 13607
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Posted: 09 Jul 2022 at 10:51pm |
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around here the farmers have been buying old fire trucks and a few old military trucks, they put boxes on them and most when bought only had a few thousand miles on them. i bought an old military semi tractor years ago. was made in the 70's, when i got it it only had less than 3000 miles on it. only thing wrong was the paint looked faded! lol
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shameless dude
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Location: east NE
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Posted: 09 Jul 2022 at 10:53pm |
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also there is a dude locally that goes around the country buying up old cab overs and a few conventionals, refubishes them and re-sells them. he's making a killing and has alot of happy customers!
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Coke-in-MN
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Afton MN
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Posted: 09 Jul 2022 at 11:15pm |
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Seems glider kits now have limits on them as to how many can be sold or repowered back, so another work around closed to most.
Resurgence of COE cabs is the other route but finding a solid body is a hard find .
I serviced 5 tractors back in the 70's - 3 - 8v71 Detroit's with RTO9513 - and 2 Commins units also with RTO 9513 .
Son sold his 2 units , ouint axle dumps as last new Western Star with Detroit was spending more time in shop than on the road . The Sterling with Volvo engine he had a driver in but that ended up with a new driver about every month . Trying to find drivers who showed up for more then 2 weeks was a problem.
I still have my 2 tandems setting out back but both gas powered units one with RT 6013 and other 5x4 . Was driving for friend in past years and tandem Ford dumps with Allison Autos but city required tri axle or more on their jobs starting in Fed of this year so he had to find newer units = then when he leased 3 trucks - a month later they cut him from 5 trucks to 2 on jobs .
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Life lesson: If you’re being chased by a lion, you’re on a horse, to the left of you is a giraffe and on the right is a unicorn, what do you do? You stop drinking and get off the carousel.
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DMiller
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 33967
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Posted: 10 Jul 2022 at 6:30am |
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Gliders have become a machine of the past, new restrictions as to what can be put in them and how are titled for emissions has destroyed that way of saving good power plants and running gear from crumbling old machines.
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