New to forum with 1958 D-14

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   I recently purchased a 1958 D-14. Tractor came with an AC loader, 2 bottom plow, side & rear cultivator, AC manuals and a couple other goodies the seller included. Tractor is very sound, good tin, original paint and no indication of any major engine or drive train repairs. 

The tractor creeps when transmission is in gear and power director is in neutral position.  From other postings on the forum I've gathered that this is due to incorrect shimming of the power director clutch assembly.  I've also found the foot clutch travel is longer than the  distance specified in the manual.  A further inspection revealed that a piece  has been welded to the foot clutch adjustment rod ( approx. 3/4 -1 in.). There is no clutch slippage while under load. My question is this;  is the creeping  while the Power Director is in neutral  due only to shimming of the PD assembly or is it due to the extension welded to the foot clutch adjustment rod.   

I am amazed at the collective knowledge and support of the forum members. Thanks in advance to all for assistance with my question.
Tom

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tominMi Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 23 Aug 2011 Points: 63	Post Options Post Reply Quote tominMi Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: New to forum with 1958 D-14 Posted: 23 Aug 2011 at 9:03am
	I recently purchased a 1958 D-14. Tractor came with an AC loader, 2 bottom plow, side & rear cultivator, AC manuals and a couple other goodies the seller included. Tractor is very sound, good tin, original paint and no indication of any major engine or drive train repairs. The tractor creeps when transmission is in gear and power director is in neutral position. From other postings on the forum I've gathered that this is due to incorrect shimming of the power director clutch assembly. I've also found the foot clutch travel is longer than the distance specified in the manual. A further inspection revealed that a piece has been welded to the foot clutch adjustment rod ( approx. 3/4 -1 in.). There is no clutch slippage while under load. My question is this; is the creeping while the Power Director is in neutral due only to shimming of the PD assembly or is it due to the extension welded to the foot clutch adjustment rod. I am amazed at the collective knowledge and support of the forum members. Thanks in advance to all for assistance with my question. Tom

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Hubert (Ga)engine7 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Jackson Cnty,GA Points: 6465	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hubert (Ga)engine7 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Aug 2011 at 9:13am
	Tom, welcome to the Forum. I recently acquired a D 15 and it does the same thing. Since this is my first D series I am still learning quite a bit. Correct shimming should correct the problem. The clutch extension should not affect it.
	Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God.

DonDittmar Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: MIllersburg, MI Points: 2516	Post Options Post Reply Quote DonDittmar Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Aug 2011 at 9:28am
	A small amount of creeping is normal, as the clutch is a wet clutch and the drag of the oil will cause it to creep, but you should be able to stop the tractor with the brakes. If you cant then you will be into it for a re-shim. The IT books actually gives a nice description on the procedure. What part of MI are you from?
	Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity" 1968 D15D,1962 D19D Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start

Brian Jasper co. Ia Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Prairie City Ia Points: 10508	Post Options Post Reply Quote Brian Jasper co. Ia Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Aug 2011 at 10:18am
	Some creep when the oil is cold is normal from what I've been told. If it does it hot, I'd be concerned. On my D17, the detent plate that holds the lever in neutral was really worn. I built mine up and it stopped the creep when warm.
	"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford

tominMi Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 23 Aug 2011 Points: 63	Post Options Post Reply Quote tominMi Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Aug 2011 at 10:33am
	Thanks for the replies. Don I'm in the UP. I call the Sault home even though we live in the outlying township. The tractor creeps less when warmed and especially so in the upper gears. When cold in the lower gears the creep is strong enough to over power light brake pedal pressure. Sounds as though an inspection & re-shimming /rebuild of the power director will be needed. Are shim kits available and where can they be obtained? I have not changed the fluids, other than engine oil. Would too heavy an oil contribute to this problem? Tom

DonDittmar Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: MIllersburg, MI Points: 2516	Post Options Post Reply Quote DonDittmar Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Aug 2011 at 4:06pm
	Hi Tom, I am from Presque Isle County, not too far from you in the LP, a couple of guys on this forum are from the UP as well, so you are not alone up there. Heavy oil would contribute to it as well, they had non detergent 20W in the Power Director(Technical term for hi/lo range) from the factory, I use AW32 in mine because I use that in the hydraulics and power steering as well, keeps me from having to buy mulitple buckets of oil. If it will over power the brakes, i mean you can stand on the brakes and make it stop but the motor lugs, it is most likely too tight and will need to be adjusted. Like I said the IT book gives a nice how too, and it sounds alot more complicated than it actually is, but you will need a set of calipers to do the measuring, or a set of split gauges and a 0-1 mic.
	Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity" 1968 D15D,1962 D19D Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start

Pat the Plumber CIL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Springfield,Il Points: 4930	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pat the Plumber CIL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Aug 2011 at 6:48pm
	Most D series 19's,17's and 14,15's will creep with power director in neutral.On our farm as a kid I remember all our D series tractors not creeping at all w. PD in neutral.Would coast to a stop when pulled into neutral.All our tractors were used daily.Later in life when I was looking for a D series almost all of the ones I looked at creeped in neutral,but most were hardly used. Someone told me a while back if you were to take that creeping tractor out and plow for the afternoon it would clear that problem up.I do not know if that is true or not.If the brake won't hold it then it may need re shimmed as manual describes.May want to take it out and put it through it's paces and see if that clears it up.Make sure proper oil is in power director chamber.Drain plug below foot clutch.
	You only need to know 3 things to be a plumber;Crap rolls down hill,Hot is on the left and Don't bite your fingernails 1964 D-17 SIV 3 Pt.WF,1964 D-15 Ser II 3pt.WF ,1960 D-17 SI NF,1956 WD 45 WF.

Brian Jasper co. Ia Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Prairie City Ia Points: 10508	Post Options Post Reply Quote Brian Jasper co. Ia Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Aug 2011 at 7:10pm
	You don't remove or add shims to the power director. You move them from one side to the other.
	"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford

jtheise4 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 23 Feb 2011 Location: SE Michigan Points: 144	Post Options Post Reply Quote jtheise4 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Aug 2011 at 7:53pm
	Anyone have any pictures that show this? My power director hangs up on my D14 and I'd like to fix it if its not a huge under taking. How difficult is it to move the shims? Do you have to split the tractor or is it something that can be adjusted through an inspection plate?
	1958 D14

DonDittmar Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: MIllersburg, MI Points: 2516	Post Options Post Reply Quote DonDittmar Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Aug 2011 at 6:05am
	You can reshim be going through the cover by your right foot, no splitting required. And as Brian said no dont actually remove shims. That clutch is assembled with .205 worth of shims at all 3 locations, and this amount must always stay. You add or remove shims to adjust the clutch pack, and then you do the oppsite at the center plate. What i mean is if you remove .010 worth of shims at the clutch pack, you must add .010 worth to the center plates. If you change the .205 dimension you are in effect changing the length of the connecting links........
	Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity" 1968 D15D,1962 D19D Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start

Burgie Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Scottsburg, IN Points: 1192	Post Options Post Reply Quote Burgie Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Aug 2011 at 6:47am
	I`ve noticed that some of the noches that is the neutral needs to be adjusted. If you can push the button down and move the lever and it stops the creeping, adjust the noch to that spot.
	"Burgie"

David Maddux Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Points: 2535	Post Options Post Reply Quote David Maddux Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Aug 2011 at 6:47am
	There is an easier fix for the creeping in neutral. More than probably the clutches are dirty. Drain the fluid out and refill with the red automatic transmision fluid. This is a very high detergent oil. It will clean the clutches where they are sticking. Try this first. It will be a lot cheaper fix if it is all that is wrong. You can then run the atf in the power director for a while if you want, it won't hurt anything. Dave.