new guy with some D17 series 4 questions

Hello group! Truth be told, I have ghosted the forums here for a while and decided it was time to make an account so, here I am. Anyway, I won't bore you with the details how I got to the point of becoming the steward of this (ahem) fine D17 but I have a few questions if you'd entertain helping me.

I work on high end European junk as my day job, so a rusty old tractor should be a cake walk right? I believe the machine is a 67, but I can't seem to find info on the SN, which I believe to be D17-88038 and from what I found, puts it at the end of the run?

The machine runs well, and I'm picking thru some (cough) deferred maintenance. I foolishly picked up an I&T manual which evidently is a nice way of saying I purchased 200 sheets of toilet paper. I bought it specifically for 1 purpose (at least for now) and that would be manifold R+R.

I despise exhaust leaks. the clack clack clack of escaping exhaust is nails on a chalk board to me. After looking at the Allis/AGCO parts book (on line) I can't make heads or tails of what to expect when I pull the manifold.

first, I found what I believe to be the correct gaskets at napa,

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/FPBMS86053?partTypeName=Intake+Manifold+to+Exhaust+Manifold+Gasket&keywordInput=gaskets

but what I can't wrap my head around is this....are there "fire rings" (like little pieces of pipe if you will sticking out of the head or manifold) and what are the torque specs? the I&Toilet paper book makes zero mention of it, the only spit I found was when removing the head, it states "remove the manifold" ok...that's helpful....

from what I gather, some studs go into the water jackets but I haven't found any clear info on the gaskets themselves. I want to have everything on hand before I start the job. If the gaskets I linked are correct, I will get them on order.

just looking for any pitfalls before I begin

also, is there a better book out there? the I&T is kind of a sad comedy it seems.

for what it's worth here are some p/n's that may help someone out. you guys are probably going to laugh, but I dug all this up for this machine

Wix filter numbers: oil 51515 air 42505 hydraulic 51049

Belts (gates) fan/generator 229211 or 9463HD power steering 237386 or 9425HD

Hoses (gates) upper 20088 or 25474 lower 21794 or 25476 bypass (3/4 ID) 28442

Welcome to Allis. This is the best forum for AC on the web. My series 4 diesel was serial # 88427 made in 1967, sold new in 1968. I owned it for 30 years, recently sold it back to the 1st owners son. When I replaced the manifold on dad's WD 45 I put the steel gasket plate against the head. If that's not right, Dr Allis will soon set me straight.

Edited by HD6GTOM - 16 Jul 2020 at 9:43pm

thanks! I will look for him

I should mention mine is a gas powered D17

Metal goes against the cylinder head.  Lightly tape the parts to the manifold to hold things in place. Everything must be clean and hopefully flat. Re-tighten manifold nuts every morning (after previous days use) when the engine is COLD for several days to get everything squeezed together. When it gets to where the nuts seem to be tight some morning, quit with the re-torque ritual.

Lonn wrote: Your I & T manual won't even give you that torque figure? Well, save it for the next TP shortage then.

not that I have found. unless i'm stupid (could be!) it makes zero mention of the manifold at all.

Thank you for the video, something to consider for sure, much appreciated!

thank you! I have a bunch of stuff on order, so when it all turns up I will dig in and post some photos.

you've been more than helpful...all of you. I really appreciate it

oops, sorry the link isn't working for the manifold, not sure what I did wrong

thanks! that's the one. how'd you do that? I just cut and pasted the link.

again, not sure if that is going to be a quality unit. but, it seems that everyone offers that manifold at wildly varying prices

thank you

I just did a quick search. seems that they are NLA

http://oktractor.com/zen/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_15_207

I will reach out and see. looks like china may be in my future if this is true

2x what Lonn says about Tony's Tractors - as well as the other vendors on this site. Also could check the classified section to see if anyone is offering a good used one for sale.

I would certainly try the Hi-temp copper RTV on both sides of the paper gaskets and between the metal and the CLEAN cylinder head. You're not out much. Unless you are plowing and discing, I'll bet it will last quite a while. Proper torqueing and multiple cold retorques will be key to have any success with this repair. Always start with the front and rear nut to square the manifold with the head and then alternate between them all to not get it out of square.

Rusty, you'll need to call Tony.The Vinson wasn't showing on his web site last year when I got mine.They were selling them on the side.And no that wd manifold won't fit.stud holes are 3/8 yours are 7/16 and your manifold is threaded for a pipe nipple for the slide on style muffler.

Edited by ac45dave - 23 Jul 2020 at 3:06pm

DSeries4 wrote: You want to use a manifold that is 10 years older than the one you removed???  You can do what you want, but I think that is a dumb idea.  They do not get better with time! Would you put older used parts on one of your customer's European cars?

in an effort not to sound snarky, i'll do my best and bite my tongue...

would I use a older part on a car that was NLA but OEM quality? you bet.... I don't step over dollars to pick up dimes...my sanity is worth more than modifying a crap china part to do what the OEM would do out of the gate...for another 50 years.

second...i'm not a farmer. it's a long story but i'm doing my best to resurrect some of the original equipment here and save the been in the family 185 year family farm. I married into this mess 20 years ago and the family has aged out. I have always been the wrench and had parts supplied to me so this is a whole new world in terms of interchangeability to me....

yes, I will have some really stupid questions...and I apologize. I specialize in CAN, MOST and LIN-BUS diagnostics...i'm more comfortable with variable valve timing than i am with some of the tractor stuff...in a perfect world I would walk into a Allis dealer with the s/n and say "here is my list" but we aren't in a perfect world.

so to answer your question would I swap out a TDI for a 1.6na in a customers car? no....but if it was a way forward it would be an option to explore. sorry if I have come across as an azz...I have the weight of the world on my shoulders with this place and all of the folks who have run it are either dead, dying, or have dementia so trying to extract decades of knowledge from them is impossible. my wife is beside herself watching her father slowly slip away and the family empire crumble

I need this machine up and running enough to be able to repair some buildings and do some mowing. again, I apologize, I am just stressed to the max and probably took your comment wrong

thanks Ray

I actually found the delivery record from this machine today from when my wife's grandfather bought it. it's in what's left of the operators manual. anyway, I also found a treasure trove of old NOS Allis parts...nothing revolutionary, mainly "consumables" and maintenance stuff. I had to laugh when I found this...figures haha

that has to be jen-you-wine asssbestos right there   



i got it all back together and even though the manifold was booger welded before i got to it, I took care of some pin holes and a few 1/2" sections that were rotted out. man, that manifold is paper thin but should hold for a bit until i find a good used one or reach out to one of the vendors mentioned ( i will try and do that tomorrow)

I got the oil changed, all new filters and some belts. I had a hell of a time slipping the belts under the crank pulley. I got so pissed I pulled the generator out to give me more room. even then what should have been a 5 min deal turned into an hour long festival of inventing new words.

even with the crap muffler on it, I have never heard this machine run so quiet. it's always been what my father in law called a "feed and bleed" machine. I have a few couplers for the loader that are leaking a bit and a PTO shaft seal that like's to let you know it's there. not sure how far I will take it in terms of the leaks.

anyway, thank you guys for letting me vent. my wife and I would like to move the place in a better direction. we have some folks leasing to do hay/corn but I want to get the buildings in better shape as we have a guy who want's to pasture some cows.

the problem with the farm here is it truly was a victim of its own success, meaning that they were so shrewd, so smart, so profitable everyone in the family (I mean everyone up to my wife's generation) went to college...and "got smart" as my father in law use to put it. He had a fleet of daughters, and I was the son he never had so i'm pretty much the last chance here.