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My newest favorite mistake. HD6G

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doctorcorey View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 Sep 2022 at 11:10pm
Well here she is, in all her glory. I told the tow company she weighed in at 16,000+, but the dispatcher told the driver it was 12,500. He must have looked up the Ag crawler specs and didn't know it had a loader and counterweights. That truck was bagging, but hauled it the 30 miles to my house. Seller said it had been down for 'a year' . My guess.....3-5 years. Many controls and linkages stuck, and the tracks wouldn't turn....seller assured me 'it would roll', they had 'moved it with a tractor several times'. HA! I figure the brake bands are rusted up. Anyways, has full oil with a lot of diesel fuel in it, hydraulic fluid is clean and full. Clutch is out. I wonder if diesel dilution in the oil will separate after setting for a long period? Will it float to the top? I'm going to change the fuel filters, flush the lines, put in some batteries, and see if this old B#$ch will fire up. As an old nostalgic mechanic who loves old machines, this is like a mystery novel. I feel like Dorothy finding the Tin Man and loosening up his parts with oil. I will find out all that the seller knew , but didn't tell me, and I will find out how much he didn't know, and why he couldn't keep it running.  
Semper Fi USMC    1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CAL(KS) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2022 at 7:12am
if crankcase is full of diesel and it wouldnt stay running the transfter pump seal is shot.  hopefully it couldnt build enough fuel pressure and an easy fix.

Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20

Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gemdozer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2022 at 10:23am
This machine look have good undercarriage on and about oiland fuel in pan you could just loosed the drain plug and let fuel comming out until you the oil comming and change the contenair  and you can see how oil was in pan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doctorcorey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2022 at 10:31am
Originally posted by gemdozer gemdozer wrote:

This machine look have good undercarriage on and about oiland fuel in pan you could just loosed the drain plug and let fuel comming out until you the oil comming and change the contenair  and you can see how oil was in pan
The undercarriage is pretty nice. I'm going to try to get it running and then I will attack that main clutch. It seems that oil filters are getting hard to find for these, at least through the auto parts stores. This tractor is also almost full of clean hydraulic fluid. 
Semper Fi USMC    1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gemdozer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2022 at 10:57am
This motor is a BUDA ALLIS 344 and these filters should ne easy to find, you should removed them and bring them with you to your NAPA DEALER if you can't find a parts number on them
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian Beale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2022 at 3:18am
That ought to have a PSB injection pump

For which parts are unobtanium

Reiterating - As it has been sitting for a questionable time make sure the pump is not stuck before you try to start it


Edited by Ian Beale - 10 Sep 2022 at 3:20am
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doctorcorey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doctorcorey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2022 at 9:16am
Originally posted by Ian Beale Ian Beale wrote:

That ought to have a PSB injection pump

For which parts are unobtanium

Reiterating - As it has been sitting for a questionable time make sure the pump is not stuck before you try to start it
      I've only turned it over by hand, and it was really stiff. Removed the intake and introduced some lubrication through the ports. Turns very nicely. Starter drive lever pin was broken, and hopefully, that kept others from being able to crank it over. Fuel filters had clear fuel in them. Someone has tried to get it running. Am I correct that the fuel transfer pump could be substituted for some sort of external electric pump? Cheers
Semper Fi USMC    1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2022 at 9:42am
Can you post photos of the starter and parts; along with identification tag? I will be over to the rebuilder I use next week and can show them what you need. You may be better off replacing it however.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doctorcorey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2022 at 11:24am
Originally posted by Codger Codger wrote:

Can you post photos of the starter and parts; along with identification tag? I will be over to the rebuilder I use next week and can show them what you need. You may be better off replacing it however.  
The only ID tag is on the manual contact switch. Hard to read  DelcoRemy 4070, or 4c7c....32737. Definitely has been rebuilt before, very clean on inside, and old punch marks. This little pawl on the bendix arm has been repaired before, I found an old clutch cylinder rod from my F250 that matches the two step diameter of this pin exactly, so I will make one if necessary. 

Edited by doctorcorey - 10 Sep 2022 at 11:33am
Semper Fi USMC    1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doctorcorey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2022 at 11:39am
Originally posted by doctorcorey doctorcorey wrote:

Originally posted by Ian Beale Ian Beale wrote:

That ought to have a PSB injection pump

For which parts are unobtanium

Reiterating - As it has been sitting for a questionable time make sure the pump is not stuck before you try to start it
      I've only turned it over by hand, and it was really stiff. Removed the intake and introduced some lubrication through the ports. Turns very nicely. Starter drive lever pin was broken, and hopefully, that kept others from being able to crank it over. Fuel filters had clear fuel in them. Someone has tried to get it running. Am I correct that the fuel transfer pump could be substituted for some sort of external electric pump? Cheers
   Ian, are you referring to the pintle in the pressure head being stuck? I call it a pintle, it's the part that actually pushes the high pressure to the distributor.  I have seen these before.
Semper Fi USMC    1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doctorcorey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2022 at 1:16pm
Originally posted by CAL(KS) CAL(KS) wrote:

if crankcase is full of diesel and it wouldnt stay running the transfter pump seal is shot.  hopefully it couldnt build enough fuel pressure and an easy fix.

You wouldn't happen to know the number for that seal on the transfer pump, would you?Lamp My parts manual is a week or so out.
Semper Fi USMC    1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6 Merv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2022 at 2:02pm
Dr Corey.  Lip seal for fuel transfer pump is  skf 4231. Available any good bearing supplier. This is most common cause of diesel getting into engine oil
 Replaced them on my HD6 with 6000 motor.  And im pretty sure lift pump is the same for HD344 engine. 
Unless of course someone has bored out housing for a different seal.  Either way lift pump is a simple gear pump and easy to fix 
 Fuel injection heads are different though; along with injectors from HD344 to 6000 engine
tits tyres and tracks

they all cost you money
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doctorcorey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2022 at 9:50pm
Originally posted by HD6 Merv HD6 Merv wrote:

Dr Corey.  Lip seal for fuel transfer pump is  skf 4231. Available any good bearing supplier. This is most common cause of diesel getting into engine oil
 Replaced them on my HD6 with 6000 motor.  And im pretty sure lift pump is the same for HD344 engine. 
Unless of course someone has bored out housing for a different seal.  Either way lift pump is a simple gear pump and easy to fix 
 Fuel injection heads are different though; along with injectors from HD344 to 6000 engine
Thanks for the info. Smile
Semper Fi USMC    1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doctorcorey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2022 at 10:14pm
So, today I fabricated a new pin for the starter engagement lever, and reinstalled the starter. I then changed the fuel filters. About that time, it started to get cold and rainy. I got fuel to the primary filter, and figured I'd try to see if the starter would now work. Hit the plunger, and it spun over like a sewing machine. I cranked a few times for a total of probably 20 seconds. It sounds very even, like no dead holes. It started filling the oil filter housing, and sending fuel to the secondary filter. There was nothing in the cylinders that was combustion-worthy....I had went through the intake ports and added a mixture of ATF and Berrymans B12 before manually turning the engine over about 10 revs.  I had a small tin bucket over the exhaust, and I did get it to 'rattle' that bucket a few times. It was getting dark, and the rain picked up, and so did my beer intake. I'll get back to it tomorrow, and I think it's going to run. Thanks all of you for your help. 
Semper Fi USMC    1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doctorcorey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2022 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by HD6 Merv HD6 Merv wrote:

Dr Corey.  Lip seal for fuel transfer pump is  skf 4231. Available any good bearing supplier. This is most common cause of diesel getting into engine oil
 Replaced them on my HD6 with 6000 motor.  And im pretty sure lift pump is the same for HD344 engine. 
Unless of course someone has bored out housing for a different seal.  Either way lift pump is a simple gear pump and easy to fix 
 Fuel injection heads are different though; along with injectors from HD344 to 6000 engine
  Merv,  I'm pretty sure this seal must be bad. I can tell just from a little cranking that the fuel is getting in the oil, but can this leak enough to cause a lack of fuel pressure? My transfer pump is moving fuel (to the secondary filter), but will barely move the gauge when cranking the motor. I guess I will substitute another gauge and see if that is a problem. Next step is to try to tilt that nose/radiator guard forward so I can get to the pump. Thanks
Semper Fi USMC    1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6 Merv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2022 at 2:02pm
gauge will only really register with engine running, should be around 30 psi, anything over 20 is good.
The 2nd fuel filter can be a bugger to bleed.  To bleed those psb pumps, remove the 3/4 nut in the centre of the fuel pump head, where the injector pipes come out. And crank until fuel comes out tthere
tits tyres and tracks

they all cost you money
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doctorcorey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2022 at 2:51pm
Originally posted by HD6 Merv HD6 Merv wrote:

gauge will only really register with engine running, should be around 30 psi, anything over 20 is good.
The 2nd fuel filter can be a bugger to bleed.  To bleed those psb pumps, remove the 3/4 nut in the centre of the fuel pump head, where the injector pipes come out. And crank until fuel comes out tthere
  Thanks, I'll try that. Now, I'm trying to tilt the radiator guard/nose piece forward so I can access the injector pump (to get the transfer pump out, the guard is partially blocking it). I removed the two rear bolts. Am I supposed to turn or loosen those two big flathead pivots with the 3/4 square drive, or is it supposed to pivot on those? Never had to move this piece on my 7G.
Semper Fi USMC    1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doctorcorey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2022 at 2:52pm
Originally posted by doctorcorey doctorcorey wrote:

Originally posted by HD6 Merv HD6 Merv wrote:

gauge will only really register with engine running, should be around 30 psi, anything over 20 is good.
The 2nd fuel filter can be a bugger to bleed.  To bleed those psb pumps, remove the 3/4 nut in the centre of the fuel pump head, where the injector pipes come out. And crank until fuel comes out tthere
  Thanks, I'll try that. Now, I'm trying to tilt the radiator guard/nose piece forward so I can access the injector pump (to get the transfer pump out, the guard is partially blocking it). I removed the two rear bolts. Am I supposed to turn or loosen those two big flathead pivots with the 3/4 square drive, or is it supposed to pivot on those? Never had to move this piece on my 7G.
  Also, it looks like someone has chiseled on those in the past, to try to turn them, I guess. 
Semper Fi USMC    1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote doctorcorey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2022 at 9:33pm
It runs! Finally started popping a few cylinders after I got it fully primed and opened the throttle a little. Hydraulics work fine, too. The old 'oil' I drained out had so much diesel in it that I'm sure I could pour it right back in the tank and burn it. Time now to start pulling the main clutch down and pray I can find parts for it. 
Semper Fi USMC    1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 200Tom1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2022 at 11:06pm
I got all filters thru our local NAPA. Pull the motor to work on/replace the main clutch. Hopefully you have an oil clutch. The adjustment is under the floor board.   Usually easy to adjust. Good luck with the old gal. They are a whole lot of fun to operate. Wish I still had the last one I owned. It went to central Nebraska.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 200Tom1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2022 at 11:12pm
I've used 2 torches at the same time to heat up those big bolts. Spot weld them on the outside and get the biggest breaker bar on those nuts and start in. While you have it opened up. Replace the radiator hoses. Be careful you don't leave anything laying on top of the motor while starting the motor. I left a 3/8th wrench up there, the fan kicked it thru the radiator. That was $400.00 to fix 20 years ago.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doctorcorey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2022 at 8:03am
Originally posted by 200Tom1 200Tom1 wrote:

I got all filters thru our local NAPA. Pull the motor to work on/replace the main clutch. Hopefully you have an oil clutch. The adjustment is under the floor board.   Usually easy to adjust. Good luck with the old gal. They are a whole lot of fun to operate. Wish I still had the last one I owned. It went to central Nebraska.
    Tom, it's a dry clutch. Others have said that it can be changed without removing the engine? It would be a chore pulling the engine where the machine is sitting. About those big 3/4' drive bolts, are you supposed to loosen those before the nose can be tilted forward? Thanks. Smile
Semper Fi USMC    1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doctorcorey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2022 at 9:34pm
Originally posted by Ian Beale Ian Beale wrote:

That ought to have a PSB injection pump

For which parts are unobtanium

Reiterating - As it has been sitting for a questionable time make sure the pump is not stuck before you try to start it
  What about gaskets for the transfer pump. Are they paper, or o-ring, or ?
Semper Fi USMC    1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian Beale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2022 at 4:08am
It has been about 15 years since I was in that area!

I don't remember there being anything special.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doctorcorey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2022 at 9:38pm
Originally posted by Ian Beale Ian Beale wrote:

It has been about 15 years since I was in that area!

I don't remember there being anything special.
I was able to to get the pump out, turned it a bit to clear the elbow and out it popped. The seal was not hard, but a tiny bit of side play in the pump shaft was enough to let fuel pass the seal. Didn't disassemble the pump....seal was in tight but I got it out. I didn't want to mess with that 'shim' gasket between body and cover. Still hitting 90 degrees here every day, slowing me down at my age. I did discover today that the fuel cutoff control doesn't work. Plunger is moving full travel, but no shut-off. Guess I'll take a look in there and see which irreplaceable part is missing/broken. Cheers. 

Semper Fi USMC    1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doctorcorey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2022 at 5:53pm
Got the clutch out, only had to cut off one corroded cover bolt. Pressure plate is cracked. Those three retainers on the outer perimeter are bolted on, and then apparently tack welded to the pressure plate. Clutch disc looked surprisingly good, and is >.375'' at the pads. Anyone have the thickness spec on the clutch disc?  There was still plenty of adjustment left on the clutch, I think Hector was right that they just ran it till it burned up, and the heat cracked the pressure plate (perhaps trying to unfreeze the tracks?)......water intrusion through the open inspection port finished the damage. Good news, I peeked into the tranny and it all looks factory shiny and new inside. Any RX on oil type for the trans? Once again, I appreciate all the help with the specifics in this project. 
Semper Fi USMC    1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gemdozer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2022 at 7:01pm
The cluch at pad .375 should be very good
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doctorcorey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2022 at 9:50pm
Well, I have ordered my clutch parts and sent off the disc to be relined. I then switched to the steering brakes, the left one was stuck like our economy. A little rosebud work and they freed up. I can now rotate the input shaft to the trans and move the machine a little. Tracks are slowly getting freed up by penetrant, pry bars and BFH's. I'm going to try to jack up the machine one side at a time and see how the tracks droop. The old 344 starts right up now and doesn't smoke anymore. Can't wait to be pushing dirt. 
Semper Fi USMC    1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel
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Sounds like you are on a mission! Tracy
No greater gift than healthy grandkids!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 7:49am
Tracks will free up considerably once you get to rolling on them with a few gradual turns included. Ensure you keep good tension on them when first starting out as a "stiff" track throws easily. Not too bad on a tractor of your size but a PIA all the same.  
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