| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Gary Burnett 
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Virginia
Points: 3059
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: Motor Oil Again
Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 6:16am |
|
So with all the information on motor oil and much I don't understand question is.
If I go to buy oil this morning what is the best oil I can buy for my 185 diesel to make it
hold up and run right long term?
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
DougS
Orange Level
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Location: Iowa
Points: 2490
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 6:30am |
You ask a loaded question. If you use a modern motor oil that is diesel rated and change it with the original manufacturer's recommendations, I doubt you'll see any significant difference between one oil and another. I would consider a premium oil filter, though. Premium oil filters get more of the fine particles than the el-cheapo ones.
|
|
jaybmiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
Points: 24578
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 6:45am |
|
If you want a real eye opener, find the Tom McCahill (sp) articles in Mechanix Illustrated from the 60s ! He was a real 'wrench turner' and didn't pull any punches.He did REAL road tests,some I think coast to coast. tests involved same cars, complete oil changes, oil top ups only, and only changing the filters.
yes I know today's engines are 'different' BUT it'd be interesting to see the same tests run today !
|
|
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
|
|
Tbone95
Orange Level Access
Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Location: Michigan
Points: 12128
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 6:50am |
|
Anyone remember the old TV Ad, the guy driving the mosquito fogger, "Motor oil is motor oil?!" Hahahaha
|
|
DougS
Orange Level
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Location: Iowa
Points: 2490
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 7:07am |
 jaybmiller wrote:
If you want a real eye opener, find the Tom McCahill (sp) articles in Mechanix Illustrated from the 60s ! He was a real 'wrench turner' and didn't pull any punches.He did REAL road tests,some I think coast to coast. tests involved same cars, complete oil changes, oil top ups only, and only changing the filters.
yes I know today's engines are 'different' BUT it'd be interesting to see the same tests run today !
|
Coast to coast was a workout back in those days. In the very early 60s a 2000 mile oil change was the norm. I remember the Wolf's Head sign stating it was "the 2000 mile motor oil." It was only recent back then to switch from 1000 miles to 2000 miles. A coast to coast run in today's cars is child's play. With 7,500 mile changes you can go coast to coast and back on a single change and maybe use a half a quart of oil. Some European cars are rated for 15,000 mile changes when used with the rated motor oils. Today you have to rely on the ASTM tests, which compare apples to apples.
|
|
Gary Burnett
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Virginia
Points: 3059
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 7:45am |
|
I'm not really looking for reads I'm looking for brand names that tractors owners
here think would be the best.
|
|
DougS
Orange Level
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Location: Iowa
Points: 2490
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 7:54am |
|
Go with that if you like, but what someone thinks is the best may not be the best. If you want my opinion, AMSOIL synthetic is the best. Will it matter if you use the best, the second best, or even the fifth best? Probably not.
|
|
Gary Burnett
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Virginia
Points: 3059
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 8:25am |
|
Well I still want the opinions,people usually have reasons why they use a certain product although I'll say the ones that go to Walmart and buy oil because its cheap won't sway me a lot.
|
|
Tbone95
Orange Level Access
Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Location: Michigan
Points: 12128
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 8:55am |
Rotella or Mobil......And my reasons are only that so many people seem to hold them in high regard and have a high opinion of them. The farm hasn't blown up an engine using a different oil since 1980. But more importantly, the farm hasn't "NOT" blown up an engine because of using those. So like most people, I have a farm, with experience, that feeds opinion. I don't have a lab. So if you don't want to read lab reports, that's what you get! 
Edited by Tbone95 - 12 Feb 2018 at 8:56am
|
|
ac45dave
Orange Level Access
Joined: 23 May 2015
Location: SE(IN)
Points: 1343
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 9:06am |
Gary,here's my 2 cents worth.this has been a concern of mine for the last year or so and even more so in recent months with the latest changes in mandates on engine oils to achieve the api service ratings.I decided to go with valvoline vr1 10w30 in my old gas tractors.I had a long conversation with a well respected allis mechanic on this site on this issue, and this what he recomends to his customers and uses it in his own allis tractors.also if you look at the test info in my post another good oil read you'll see that the vr1 was third out of 40 oils tested,103505 psi on the film strength test.you also want a good middle of the road balance on the zddp package between 1200 ppm and 2000 ppm witch the vr1 has at 1500 ppm.too little or too much can cause issues.as for the diesel tractors i'm staying with rotella for now.also take a look at the manufacturers tech data sheets on there web sites.if they don't list the zinc and phospherus then I start to question what's really in there product. I hope this helps you out in your decision as well as other folks.that was the reason for my other two threads on this subject,to help us all with this problem our government has created for us old tractor owners.
Edited by ac45dave - 12 Feb 2018 at 9:18am
|
|
54 wd-45gas ; 56 wd-45d N/F w/fact p/s ; 63 d-17 sIII N/F gas ; 60 D14 N/F ; 67 d-17 sIV N/F gas ; 63D15 sII W/F; 39rc#667 ; 2021 massey 4710 fwa ; gravely 2 wheel tractors
|
|
BenGiBoy
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Nov 2015
Location: Ashville, NY
Points: 705
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 9:40am |
DougS wrote:
Go with that if you like, but what someone thinks is the best may not be the best. If you want my opinion, AMSOIL synthetic is the best. Will it matter if you use the best, the second best, or even the fifth best? Probably not. |
X2... AMSOIL is the best, hands down. (IMO) In old gas tractors I would use the Premium Protection of the Z-ROD oil they make. Would have to do a little more research before I picked the diesel oil, but it would be from them. - Ben
Edited by BenGiBoy - 12 Feb 2018 at 9:43am
|
|
'39 Model B
Tractors are cheaper than girls, remember that!
|
|
Gary Burnett
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Virginia
Points: 3059
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 9:48am |
DougS wrote:
Go with that if you like, but what someone thinks is the best may not be the best. If you want my opinion, AMSOIL synthetic is the best. Will it matter if you use the best, the second best, or even the fifth best? Probably not. |
Name the top 5 oils,top 10 as I have no idea.What makes #2 better than #8 etc.
|
|
Ky.Allis
Orange Level
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Location: Kentucky
Points: 1027
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 9:54am |
|
Just use Shell Rotella and be done with it. I use it in everything from my AC 200 to my lawnmower. And YES WalMart sells it.
|
|
DougS
Orange Level
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Location: Iowa
Points: 2490
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 10:06am |
Gary Burnett wrote:
DougS wrote:
Go with that if you like, but what someone thinks is the best may not be the best. If you want my opinion, AMSOIL synthetic is the best. Will it matter if you use the best, the second best, or even the fifth best? Probably not. |
Name the top 5 oils,top 10 as I have no idea.What makes #2 better than #8 etc.
|
Some oil companies actually publish their ASTM test results. AMSOIL does. They publish them all. Some companies publish some of the ASTM tests they run. Some publish none. I look at the cold weather flowability, but I live in the north where the high predicted for today will be a whopping +7 degrees. I also look at the results for the ASTM 4-ball wear test. This test is brutal. They heat the oil to 100C (212F) and apply pressure to 4 balls while turning a disk. After a specified amount of time the wear on the disk is measured. AMSOIL does the best of all oil companies in this test. Their cold weather flowability is the best of any company too, but all synthetics perform well with cold weather flowability. When Castrol (which I otherwise do consider to be a good oil) puts forth a neat commercial, I consider it nothing more than marketing schlock. Ditto for the print ads. Glossy print and verbiage invented by their marketing company tell me nothing. Dig down deep and look for the spec sheet of your oil. Some will tell you a lot and some will tell you almost nothing. I can't even find the spec sheet for some oils. I don't do things just because I've seen it on tv or because my neighbor does it.
|
|
Stan IL&TN
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Elvis Land
Points: 6730
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 10:19am |
Been using Mobil 1 for years in everything so don't start using that because you'll just drive the price up for me. 
|
|
1957 WD45 dad's first AC
1968 one-seventy
1956 F40 Ferguson
|
|
john(MI)
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: SE MI
Points: 9262
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 10:36am |
Ky.Allis wrote:
Just use Shell Rotella and be done with it. I use it in everything from my AC 200 to my lawnmower. And YES WalMart sells it. |
Yep! same here. And I'm also convinced that oil is like food. They put the same thing in every bottle, Just put different labels on them. Main thing is to keep up on all required maintenance. If you don't change oil within the manufacturers recommendation you will have problems. Same goes for all of the fluids and filters, and any other mechanical requirements.
|
|
D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446
|
|
BenGiBoy
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Nov 2015
Location: Ashville, NY
Points: 705
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 10:42am |
|
|
|
'39 Model B
Tractors are cheaper than girls, remember that!
|
|
ac45dave
Orange Level Access
Joined: 23 May 2015
Location: SE(IN)
Points: 1343
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 10:45am |
DougS wrote:
Gary Burnett wrote:
DougS wrote:
Go with that if you like, but what someone thinks is the best may not be the best. If you want my opinion, AMSOIL synthetic is the best. Will it matter if you use the best, the second best, or even the fifth best? Probably not. |
Name the top 5 oils,top 10 as I have no idea.What makes #2 better than #8 etc.
|
Some oil companies actually publish their ASTM test results. AMSOIL does. They publish them all. Some companies publish some of the ASTM tests they run. Some publish none. I look at the cold weather flowability, but I live in the north where the high predicted for today will be a whopping +7 degrees. I also look at the results for the ASTM 4-ball wear test. This test is brutal. They heat the oil to 100C (212F) and apply pressure to 4 balls while turning a disk. After a specified amount of time the wear on the disk is measured. AMSOIL does the best of all oil companies in this test. Their cold weather flowability is the best of any company too, but all synthetics perform well with cold weather flowability. When Castrol (which I otherwise do consider to be a good oil) puts forth a neat commercial, I consider it nothing more than marketing schlock. Ditto for the print ads. Glossy print and verbiage invented by their marketing company tell me nothing. Dig down deep and look for the spec sheet of your oil. Some will tell you a lot and some will tell you almost nothing. I can't even find the spec sheet for some oils. I don't do things just because I've seen it on tv or because my neighbor does it. |
Dougs, ya caught my attention with the four ball test.what numbers are considered to be a good range for this test,for future reference.
Edited by ac45dave - 12 Feb 2018 at 10:47am
|
|
54 wd-45gas ; 56 wd-45d N/F w/fact p/s ; 63 d-17 sIII N/F gas ; 60 D14 N/F ; 67 d-17 sIV N/F gas ; 63D15 sII W/F; 39rc#667 ; 2021 massey 4710 fwa ; gravely 2 wheel tractors
|
|
DougS
Orange Level
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Location: Iowa
Points: 2490
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 11:07am |
| Dougs, ya caught my attention with the four ball test.what numbers are considered to be a good range for reference. |
Lower is better. The AMSOIL 5W-30 4-ball test is .35 and I've not seen a better one. My car uses 0W-20 and that oil tests out at .40. I've seen one in their comparisons that was .60. This was a name brand oil, BTW. It's been a couple of years since I last looked, so don't ask me for specifics. One company stated that the 4-ball doesn't matter since it isn't run in an actual engine. I disagree since it does indicate film strength and it does somewhat indicate how the oil will protect metal to metal, such as flat tappet cam wear. Once again I'll say that all major oils are good and I doubt you'll notice a significant difference in engine life between any good oil if you change the oil at recommended intervals.
Edited by DougS - 12 Feb 2018 at 11:07am
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 87171
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 12:19pm |
Once again I'll say that all major oils are good and I doubt you'll notice a significant difference in engine life between any good oil if you change the oil at recommended intervals. BINGO........ the viscosity is more important than the Brand Name on the can.. Older gas motors can use 10 w 30... diesels 15 w 40 .......... newer cars require a thinner oil like 5 w 20 ............ Too thick of oil in the winter will cause EXCESSIVE wear. I never use a straight weight oil.
Edited by steve(ill) - 12 Feb 2018 at 12:19pm
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
DougS
Orange Level
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Location: Iowa
Points: 2490
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 1:02pm |
Use the viscosity the manufacturer recommends in a newer engine. My BWM turbo diesel specification was 5W-30. Of course the oil had to meet European C3 specs. European specs are tougher than US specs. In my previous job we ran some Volvo heavy trucks and the spec for those diesels was 10W-30. I'll go with what steve(ill) says for older tractors and older diesels.
Edited by DougS - 12 Feb 2018 at 1:03pm
|
|
WF owner
Orange Level
Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
Points: 4979
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 4:21pm |
I retired from NYSDOT in May 2014. For years, NY State mandated that recycled oil be used in all their equipment. The only exception was new equipment during the warranty period. With that said, I never saw an engine failure that was attributable to oil except a few that the oil pans rusted through and lost all the oil. Every barrel of oil was marked with the specs it met (as are all oil containers). I guess my point on this is that the recommendations have gone from high priced synthetics to everything imaginable. But here is the agency that has the biggest snow fighting fleet in North America (possibly the world) using recycled oil and having negligible engine failures.
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 87171
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 4:28pm |
YEP........ the viscosity is more important than the Brand Name on the can
The other thing is that some people will not use "Wal Mart" or, or only use "FORD" or "GM" oil........... news flash... Wal Mart, FORD and GM do NOT make oil... The oil comes from one of the large manufacturers and is branded with the NAME..... For many years "Wal Mart" oil was made by Mobil....... not sure who does it now. Last I knew, CONOCO was making oil for Motocraft (FORD).
Edited by steve(ill) - 12 Feb 2018 at 4:38pm
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
ac45dave
Orange Level Access
Joined: 23 May 2015
Location: SE(IN)
Points: 1343
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 6:28pm |
steve(ill) wrote:
YEP........the viscosity is more important than the Brand Name on the can
The other thing is that some people will not use "Wal Mart" or, or only use "FORD" or "GM" oil........... news flash... Wal Mart, FORD and GM do NOT make oil... The oil comes from one of the large manufacturers and is branded with the NAME..... For many years "Wal Mart" oil was made by Mobil....... not sure who does it now. Last I knew, CONOCO was making oil for Motocraft (FORD).
|
One thing you need to remember the oil is blended to individual vender specifications,some more stringent than others.I know from working in the ford dealer for more than half my 35 year career in the auto/light truck repair field, motorcraft 15w-40 diesel oil had by far the best anti-foaming package out there bar none.it was geared around the high press oil system witch creates a lot of sheer in the oil.cheap diesel oil caused a lot of driveabilty and poor idle quality issues early on with the 7.3 powerstrokes.experienced it first hand.so there is a difference in one brand to another,it's all in the blending and additive packages.and yes,conoco phillips blends motorcraft oil.
|
|
54 wd-45gas ; 56 wd-45d N/F w/fact p/s ; 63 d-17 sIII N/F gas ; 60 D14 N/F ; 67 d-17 sIV N/F gas ; 63D15 sII W/F; 39rc#667 ; 2021 massey 4710 fwa ; gravely 2 wheel tractors
|
|
fixer1958
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Feb 2010
Location: kansas
Points: 2434
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 7:33pm |
|
I use Rotella in the 3 diesels I have. Whatever is slippery and looks like oil in the WD. Drops a half quart after every oil change and after that never changes. No usage after that. No matter what I put in it. Been doing it for 20 years.
Had a 01 Chevy 1/2 ton 5.3 that I used Pennzoil in for 10 years and had the typical cold start up knock, kept getting worse over time. Switched to Castrol 5W30 for about 5 oil changes and it nearly stopped. When I got rid of it it had 275K on it and ran perfect. Sold it because it was rusting out from under me and got tired of fixing it.
Best truck I ever had.
Whatever makes you feel more satisfied with. I don't like Valvoline and stay with good filters. On the diesels I use Wix, nothing else other than OE filters if available.
On the car and trucks it's Napa premium filters I think and Castrol whatever it calls for.
|
|
AC720Man
Orange Level
Joined: 10 Oct 2016
Location: Shenandoah, Va
Points: 5189
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 13 Feb 2018 at 9:13pm |
|
Rotella T 15w-40 and quality filters in our diesels, including my Ram truck. Tractors are from 1968 and 1981. Never had lubrication issues with it. Mobil 1 synthetic in my turbo cars from the factory and I continue to use it. 299,000 plus miles on a 14 sec/1/4 mile AWD Eagle Talon running 20 psi of boost on a big turbo. That’s the only data I have. There are good oils out there, regular maintenance and quality filters is a must to make them last. IMO.
|
|
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
|
|
Gary Burnett
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Virginia
Points: 3059
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 14 Feb 2018 at 7:24am |
ac45dave wrote:
steve(ill) wrote:
YEP........the viscosity is more important than the Brand Name on the can
The other thing is that some people will not use "Wal Mart" or, or only use "FORD" or "GM" oil........... news flash... Wal Mart, FORD and GM do NOT make oil... The oil comes from one of the large manufacturers and is branded with the NAME..... For many years "Wal Mart" oil was made by Mobil....... not sure who does it now. Last I knew, CONOCO was making oil for Motocraft (FORD).
|
One thing you need to remember the oil is blended to individual vender specifications,some more stringent than others.I know from working in the ford dealer for more than half my 35 year career in the auto/light truck repair field, motorcraft 15w-40 diesel oil had by far the best anti-foaming package out there bar none.it was geared around the high press oil system witch creates a lot of sheer in the oil.cheap diesel oil caused a lot of driveabilty and poor idle quality issues early on with the 7.3 powerstrokes.experienced it first hand.so there is a difference in one brand to another,it's all in the blending and additive packages.and yes,conoco phillips blends motorcraft oil. |
I agree 100% just because its made by the same supplier its not necessarily the same quality.I worked at Morton's Food manufacturer in the early 70's for awhile and we made all sorts of food items for different companies but every company had their specs on what to put in say a TV dinner.All made on the same production line by the same people but very different products.I'd imagine things like batteries and oil are done the same way
|
|
LeonR2013
Orange Level
Joined: 01 Jan 2013
Location: Fulton, Mo
Points: 3500
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 14 Feb 2018 at 7:47am |
|
Talking about filters, what do you think of the Mobil 1 extended life filters?
|
|
DougS
Orange Level
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Location: Iowa
Points: 2490
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 14 Feb 2018 at 8:36am |
LeonR2013 wrote:
Talking about filters, what do you think of the Mobil 1 extended life filters? |
Good filters. Ditto AMSOIL and Purolator Pure 1 filters. I use AMSOIL filters but I use them because they trap finer particles, not because the extended life.
|
|
Don(MO)
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Bates City MO.
Points: 6862
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 14 Feb 2018 at 10:09am |
OK guys, I called Shell to find out their new oil specs and well what I was told it was not good, lets just say the story changed four times as we talked. It's not about the filters, if we installed ten or more filters along side the frame rail it will not help, it's about what's not in todays newer oils out there that's the problem.
|
|
3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.
|
|
