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Model B wiring diagrams

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Parris001 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26 Apr 2020 at 1:59pm
Here's my latest rookie Allis model B question. My B has a magneto on it. I'm fairly acquainted with magnetos, all my Gravely Ls have them and some I've completely rebuilt. 

On my B, early on I would pull the throttle all the way down to the first notch to let it die. I did find though that the battery would be dead the next day. Surprised me because I thought all the ignition switch did was ground the coil to kill the spark. But, switch off and the battery stays up. 

Then I got to looking at electrical schematics for B and C tractors. I found a difference in one small little detail. On some prints the switch was labeled "magneto switch", on some it was labeled "ignition or magneto switch". Some prints show a circuit ran from the negative side of the amp meter to the switch and some didn't have this circuit. 

I guess the reason I'm really asking this is my tractor died yesterday. No spark. I haven't started looking into it yet but I figure the switch is just bad. Looks to be original. But the original issue I had of the tractor battery draining if I let the switch on has me wondering why that is? 


Edited by Parris001 - 26 Apr 2020 at 2:17pm
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chaskaduo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chaskaduo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2020 at 3:56pm
A Magneto is a unit in of itself to provide spark. The switch may kill or ground the magneto to stop the engine. The switch may also have other battery functions, if you are using one for starting with a battery hooked up to it to turn the starter and then also retract back to run other option like Acc. and lights ect, and the grounded the magneto to stop is one thing. You need to make sure your switch is right for your application.
1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick of HopeIN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2020 at 5:03pm
On my B the magneto switch is a push/pull two position switch and only functions to ground the magneto terminal to stop the engine.

The headlamp switch has two positions to turn on the headlamps and rear work lamp and also to increase output of the old generator to compensate for the headlamp draw. There was no voltage regulator so the 6 volt generator just puts out all the time the tractor is running.
1951 B, 1937 WC, 1957 D14, -- Thanks and God Bless
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick of HopeIN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2020 at 5:12pm
If it has the old style generator, the relay on top is the cutout relay that opens when engine stops to prevent battery discharge though the alternator. No regulator, the normal output is adjusted by a third brush on the back of the alternator. Mine is a 1951 but still had this old style system.
1951 B, 1937 WC, 1957 D14, -- Thanks and God Bless
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parris001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2020 at 5:46pm
Originally posted by Rick of HopeIN Rick of HopeIN wrote:

If it has the old style generator, the relay on top is the cutout relay that opens when engine stops to prevent battery discharge though the alternator. No regulator, the normal output is adjusted by a third brush on the back of the alternator. Mine is a 1951 but still had this old style system.

I have the generator with the relay on top
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chaskaduo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2020 at 5:51pm
I think we need to know what year this B is and if it is stock and not modified, ie no starter and hand crank only, or if a change later in life with a starter torque tube for an electric starter 6 or 12 volt ect. Please explain more.
1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parris001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2020 at 5:54pm
Originally posted by chaskaduo chaskaduo wrote:

I think we need to know what year this B is and if it is stock and not modified, ie no starter and hand crank only, or if a change later in life with a starter torque tube for an electric starter 6 or 12 volt ect. Please explain more.

To my knowledge, bone stock. Still 6 volt positive ground. I recently had the original generator rebuilt and got it back up and running. Hasn't been modified. Original electric starter. Year built is 1942


Edited by Parris001 - 26 Apr 2020 at 6:17pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chaskaduo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2020 at 6:30pm
Parris001
 You still don't identify what year this is, you are your assuming all years are the same. Your B tractor id is right there by the Shifter, It's not hard to miss, look it up and it will tell you what year it is and stock.
This might help you find the info you seek.
Mine is a modified 1938 with a torque tube and flywheel for electric start (I figure 6 volt) positive ground, but I'm using 12 volt neg ground.
 
No question is a stupid question this is how we learn
And I might not have answered your question.
Keep Asking If Need Be This how I learned. Smile
1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parris001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2020 at 6:32pm
1942. Right above your post............
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chaskaduo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2020 at 6:37pm
Wow you answered while I was writing. So is everything working good I hope. Or are you still having Problems.
1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chaskaduo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2020 at 6:41pm
Still seems like the switch or wiring to it t me.
1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parris001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2020 at 6:48pm
I'm really wondering about the discrepancy in the wiring diagrams. Is one for a distributor and the other for a mag?

I'm going to get this tractor up on the driveway tomorrow and dig in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2020 at 7:40pm
The B that was equipped with a Magneto had either a single push/pull grounding switch, or a dual terminal grounding switch. The real early B's had the single self grounding switch. Later in the B/C production, the two terminal switch was introduced as a replacement. One side of the switch went to the Mag, the other side to ground.

Now as the B progressed through the years, Battery ignition came on board. (Distributor) Those particular Tractors came with an ON/OFF ignition switch.  Turn the key ON hit the Starter rod and fire it up. To shut it, turn the key off and cut current to the Distributor's coil.

As for the charging end of the system, the 6V Gennie put out about 7-10 amps max depending on where the third brush was located. As Rick mentioned above, the cutout relay sat on top of the Gennie. All this did was sever the Battery from the Generator at low idle or when the engine was shut off so the Gennie didn't act as a dynamo and drain the Battery while the Tractor sat. That relay has nothing to do with charging.

The 3 position Headlight/Charging switch was your manual control for turning the lights on as well as increasing the ground (field) to the Generator to increase Gennie output. The 3 position switched worked this way. All the way in, low charge (3 amps) through the resistor that's located at the bottom of the switch. Second position out bypasses the resistor and now full fields the Gennie as well as turning on the Headlights and work lamp if equipped. Third position out Lights OFF and full charge remains. This was designed by Delco Remy to work this way in case the Battery was low from sitting and the Battery can be fast charged without the lights being a draw on the system. THE 3 POSITION SWITCH IS A SELF GROUNDING SWITCH AND MUST HAVE A GOOD GROUND IN THE INSTRUMENT PANEL. IF IT DOESN'T IT WILL NOT CHARGE. Visit our website. There's a lot of good reading there on the 6V & 12V wiring systems.  HTH
Steve@B&B
bb-customcircuits.com
39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick of HopeIN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2020 at 7:40pm
This is the circuit I have used for B generator. The magneto switch is not tied in with battery/generator. Starter solenoid is directly mounted on starter motor and operated by the pull ring.

As I understand, the relay contacts on generator should open when engine stops or generator is not turning to prevent battery discharge back thru generator windings.

Steve at B&B rebuilt my light switch and made it look like new. I have since bought several other parts from him, always great stuff.



Edited by Rick of HopeIN - 26 Apr 2020 at 7:50pm
1951 B, 1937 WC, 1957 D14, -- Thanks and God Bless
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parris001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 8:49am
So it ended up my ground wire had rubbed and gone to ground. Easy fix,  it I did have to get the starter rebuilt. It needed it though
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chaskaduo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 9:44am
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndreaBur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2021 at 2:03am
Daaamn, thank you so much for the scheme , I was looking for it! So I'll have an idea about it ... LOL 1942, brooo
I was looking for such a scheme, since I had serious problems with this part, and I turned to bates-electric.com which my best friend recommended to me. They did everything well. But due to the great age of my car, there are other problems that I want to do myself, as I want to learn something in this area ( if I fix it myself, I will even be proud, haha ) Now I will do this repair with a certain material in the form of this diagram!


Edited by AndreaBur - 09 Apr 2021 at 9:25am
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