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Model B Engine No. Question
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Doug R MN View Drop Down
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Joined: 15 Sep 2009
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    Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 8:56pm
Whats with the CR preceding the engine number on my 1940 B with the CE engine.
I've never paid much attention to this till now. Is this CR a normal marking?
Doug
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morton(pa) View Drop Down
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Points: 1234 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morton(pa) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 9:03pm
Hmm, positive its a CR? I know power units had their own serial number but I thought they still had the regular engine serial number as well. Is it stamped where the other serial numbers are on the CE engine, on the side bell housing? If its a BE engine, it will be on top of bell housing facing the Back of the tractor on a raised part on the bell housing. Might want to double check and/or take a picture of it.

Just another note: 1940 B's did not come with a CE engine. They came with the BE engine which was 116 CI instead of the CE engine that came out in the B's in 1942/42 that was 125 CI. So no matter what, it sounds like your engine was swapped out sometime in its life from somewhere.


Edited by morton(pa) - 24 Mar 2010 at 10:24pm
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GlenninPA View Drop Down
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Points: 5054 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlenninPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 9:26pm

tyler,

did the CE engine come out in 1940 with the C, or earlier in 1939 with the RC?
 
Isn't the CR prefix used to designate a 60H power unit?
 
can you research this and let us know?
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Doug R MN View Drop Down
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Points: 49 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doug R MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 9:33pm
Thanks Morton. I goofed...... It is a BE engine. But the engine is stamped CR 40535 OA on the upper left side by the bell housing. The tractor # is 43782. I'll try pics tomorrow.
Doug
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morton(pa) View Drop Down
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Points: 1234 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morton(pa) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 9:35pm
Hmm. This sure is interesting. Let me grab my Allis Bible (Norms book) and see if  I can do some digging real quick. 
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Doug R MN View Drop Down
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Points: 49 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doug R MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 9:45pm
Well I guess I should'nt say it's a BE engine either. Just going by the tractor number it should have been built with an BE engine.
Doug
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morton(pa) View Drop Down
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Points: 1234 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morton(pa) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 9:52pm
Ok, here we go, from Norm's book:

(In the RC article, page 57) "It was powered by the same 125-cubic inch engine that drove the later Model B's and the forthcoming Model C."

(In the C article, page 58) By upgrading the Model B into the larger Model C, Allis-Chalmers was able to market a light two plow, two row tractor at a competitive price"

I also looked up the charts from the Nebraska test tractors on Page 63 and serial number chart on 62. The BE engine was used in B tractors serial number 64500 and below. This would make the switch in 1942 or 43, depending on whos serial number chart you are going on. (43 in the book, 42 on this site). 

The model C and RC did use the CE engine from the start of production. My guess is the final B's used the left over blocks in 40, 41, and 42, and parts before the switch was made in 42 or 43 for to the CE engine. 

I did encounter something interesting in this brief research sorta unrelated to engines that I'll be starting a new thread on, so check that out. If anyone needs any more info I have the book right in front of me, and I'm glad to take the time to look things up.
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Points: 2166 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 10:05pm
I think that engine is from a stationary unit (as was already mentioned) but I could be wrong. If I recall correctly it turned 100 rpm's faster? It is probably safe to say that it isn't the original engine!
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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morton(pa) View Drop Down
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Ah ha! I found the answer!!!!!! Dealers Parts Catalog   B, IB, and C Tractors   B-125 and 60H Power Units

Engines-

CR- Prefixed number (3-3/8 bore, 1900 RPM) used in:
      60H Gasoline Power unit prior to PU-53977-B and up
      60H Low octane Fuel Power Unit PU-55480-B and up.


SO, If it is a CR and not a BE (Don't know where the CR would be located on that block as I have never seen one) I'd say you have a rarer engine. I can honestly say I've never seen a 60H power unit. B-125's were very popular and are mostly what I see. I would love to have a picture of this engine for my records to note any changes or differences in it from the BE and CE engines. 

There also has here an engine with the prefix 

R- Prefixed number (3 3/8 bore) used in:
60H Gasoline Power Unit prior to PU-53977-B
60H Low Octane Fuel Power Unit PU-55480-B


This would be the prefix for the Early 60H power unit engines. This does not have a note as to different RPM's unlike the CR prefix. 


Edited by morton(pa) - 24 Mar 2010 at 10:20pm
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Doug R MN View Drop Down
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Points: 49 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doug R MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 10:45pm
Morton, I also spotted something on page 57. The experimental model BC. My tractor has an adjustable straight front axel with steering like this tractor.
Well I need to look hard at it again tomorrow. Will start a new thread when I have more.
I need to compare the steering and such. I'm gonna have my buddie stop over cuz like I said, I'm not a B expert.     Thanks for all the help. I will post pics tomorrow Morton. This engine (motor) is stuck and I was in the process of tearing it down for parts when I got to wondering about the number. Guess I might have to restore another one.


Edited by Doug R MN - 24 Mar 2010 at 11:38pm
Doug
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TedBuiskerN.IL. View Drop Down
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Points: 1959 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TedBuiskerN.IL. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 11:30pm
My RC, serial number 686, has engine R692.
Most problems can be solved with the proper application of high explosives.
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Points: 5919 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken in Texas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2010 at 7:25am
Jacob asked similar questions a while back when he picked up a CR prefixed 125 engine. We determined then that it began life in a 60H power unit. RPM is determined by the governor so I would guess the only real difference in these engines is the in the governor itself.
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Jacob (WI,ND) View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Ken in Texas Ken in Texas wrote:

Jacob asked similar questions a while back when he picked up a CR prefixed 125 engine. We determined then that it began life in a 60H power unit. RPM is determined by the governor so I would guess the only real difference in these engines is the in the governor itself.
Yep I did, here ya go if you haven't found it already:

Hope this helps some.
Jacob Swanson
1920 6-12; 1925,1926 20-35 longfenders; 1925,1926 15-25's; 1927,1929 20-35 shortfenders; C; B's; IB; WC's; WD; WD45
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Originally posted by Doug R MN Doug R MN wrote:

Morton, I also spotted something on page 57. The experimental model BC. My tractor has an adjustable straight front axel with steering like this tractor.
Well I need to look hard at it again tomorrow. Will start a new thread when I have more.
I need to compare the steering and such. I'm gonna have my buddie stop over cuz like I said, I'm not a B expert.     Thanks for all the help. I will post pics tomorrow Morton. This engine (motor) is stuck and I was in the process of tearing it down for parts when I got to wondering about the number. Guess I might have to restore another one.

The B did come with an Adjustable front axle, and dish style rear wheels in certain cases. Most of the time these are the later B's towards the end of the production, or as some refer to them, the "CA Era B's". Not uncommon to find them. Theres also the possibility of it being a C if the rear wheels are wide enough for 2 rows. 
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The CR serial # was on the B125 power unit. I have 2 of them. The # was stamped on the flange same as the CE. 1 of mine definately has the 1900 RPM spring in it. I have it in a CA and it is fast on the road. Do you have hand brakes or foot brakes? Prior to 40 the adjustable front end was of the wishbone style. Starting in 40 they went to the box style. The rear wheel were either the C type, or were 5 bolt with only a slight dish. More English looking. Bob
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