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AJ 
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 Topic: Live Hydrolics for a C
Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 6:31pm |
I am planning to put a loader on my allis c. I am wanting to figure out how to get live hydrolics on my tractor to run the loader. I don't want to cut my tractor's grill up or any other sheet metal. So i am asking for ideas/advice. Pictures would me great if you have them. Thanks Aj
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allismanamp
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Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 6:52pm |
i don't know how to do the picture thing yet but i seen a very nice ca Allis a older gentleman had done up power steering on and the way he did it was clean and you would swear was factory don't ask what type of pump it was but he added it right in to the steering column and it was hid down inside the tool box looked really nice i got pictures of it on my digital camera i thought it was a combine steering  pump not sure though sorry
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 8:01pm |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Ted in NE-OH
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Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 8:11pm |
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How about a PTO hydrolic pump.
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CA, WD, C, 3 Bs, 2 Gs, WC, I-400, 914
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R.W
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Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 8:23pm |
 Ted in NE-OH wrote:
How about a PTO hydraulics pump. |
But he wants "live" hydraulics.
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In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 8:25pm |
Ted in NE-OH wrote:
How about a PTO hydrolic pump. |
The C already has hydraulics that work with the PTO but they aren't live.
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1953CA
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Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 8:25pm |
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You can do Live hydraulics off of the PTO...AJ I might have just the thing for you...
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1945 AllisCletrac / 1948 "B" / 1953 "CA" / 1955 "WD-45" / 1963 "D-15 Series II"
"No Air Support without Ground Support"
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 8:27pm |
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If you had a CA pedestal, you could mount a pump up front, drive it from the front of the crankshaft and not have to cut any sheet metal. I don't know if there is a way to anchor the pump on a C pedestal.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 9:44pm |
1953CA wrote:
You can do Live hydraulics off of the PTO...AJ I might have just the thing for you... |
No you can't. The PTO stops when you clutch the C so it's not live.
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AJ
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Posted: 10 Feb 2012 at 10:02pm |
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Yes that is the issue. I don't want to run it off the pto, I want to leave that open. I do like how that CA has the set up for the live hydrolics. Does anyone know what is required to do that?
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SteveC(NS)
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Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 7:08am |
1953CA wrote:
You can do Live hydraulics off of the PTO...AJ I might have just the thing for you... |
So, is this a secret you'll only share with AJ?
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 8:14am |
AJ wrote:
Yes that is the issue. I don't want to run it off the pto, I want to leave that open. I do like how that CA has the set up for the live hydrolics. Does anyone know what is required to do that? |
Buy the rear end from a CA and bolt your engine and torque tube to it. Or maybe just buy the final drives from a CA and attach them so you have the hand clutch. Then you won't have the 4 speeds and the better hydraulic pump.
Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 11 Feb 2012 at 8:16am
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Gary
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Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 8:37am |
I think the idea of 'live hydraulics' is so you can push the foot clutch and change gears while still having operating hydraulics. So a CA axle clutch wouldn't give you 'live hydraulics'. Gary
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 8:48am |
Gary wrote:
I think the idea of 'live hydraulics' is so you can push the foot clutch and change gears while still having operating hydraulics.So a CA axle clutch wouldn't give you 'live hydraulics'. Gary |
Well that's how the CA got it, buy using the hand clutch, the PTO is live, just not independent. It wouldn't be very handy for loader use. Might be a little better if you moved the hand clutch to the left side.
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Gary
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Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 10:26am |
Charlie Does thst mean D-14 and D-15 have 'live hydraulics' then because they have the Power Director / Hand Clutch. Don't think so. Hand clutch disengages power to the wheels . Gary
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Dick L
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Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 10:37am |
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It is a lot of work but I saw pictures of a setup that had a belly mount hydraulic pump run with a roller chain where the drive gear was mounted to the engine side of the flywheel. Openings have to be cut on both sides of the bell housing to run the chain thru along with a pump mounting plate attached to the under side of the bell housing. Torque tube in this case. It was plumbed to the PTO housing using the same oil as the original hydraulic pump that could still be used.
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Eldon (WA)
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Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 11:01am |
Front pump is mounted to the front axle bracket for the WF pivot....may be a problem with a nf tractor. This setup is sweet, 3pt on the rear with 2 way cylinders.
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1953CA
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Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 11:17am |
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Eldon's setup simular to my B, minus mine is tucked in the front grill. Which cutting up the grill maybe a down side, but if it's done clean, I think is the easiest way to get LIVE hydraulics. Just mount to the radiator support and run a shaft through the hand crank hole and your done.
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1945 AllisCletrac / 1948 "B" / 1953 "CA" / 1955 "WD-45" / 1963 "D-15 Series II"
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dustinmo
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Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 11:46am |
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Find a behlen (I think that is the spelling) pump that fits between the mag/dist and the block, have one on my wc forklift and a 45 with loader and saw another one time that was used to power the orig power steering setup on a 45, dont have a pic but they are sweet and small and no cutting of any kind, then all you need then is a valve and a tank
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 3:57pm |
Gary wrote:
CharlieDoes thst mean D-14 and D-15 have 'live hydraulics' then because they have the Power Director / Hand Clutch. Don't think so. Hand clutch disengages power to the wheels . Gary |
YES, that is live hydraulics if you can stop the forward motion of the tractor and keep the pump running. The WD,45,CA and all D series have live hydraulics as long as the hand clutch or power director work.
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[ http://www.antiquefarming.com/hydraulics.html] "The term "live" hydraulics, the
word "live" meant that each of the hydraulic
systems operated independently of the drive train and could be employed even
while the tractor was not moving. In the case of power
take-off, this meant that implements could be powered independently of the drive
train. The importance of the live feature was
experienced firsthand while brush cutting. The inertia created by rotary
implement made traveling ten foot distance with the clutch
disengaged and the brakes on a common occurrence on small tractors like the Ford
9N." |
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Gary
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Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 4:24pm |
Charlie I guess it comes down to ones 'interpretation' of what 'live hydraulics' truly is. My opinion is a tractor has 'live hydraulics' only if the pump is still operating with the foot clutch depressed. My D-12 Series III has both 'live hydraulics' and 'live PTO'. Both the hydraulics and the PTO still operate even with the foot clutch depressed. What do you other knowledgable Allis guys think ? Gary
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scott
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Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 4:50pm |
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Eldon (WA)
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Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 5:39pm |
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The WD was sold as having "live" pto....being able to stop motion without stopping the pto, in this case by using the auxillary hand clutch. The D10/12 Series III had an "independent" and "live" pto....."live" because you could stop motion without stopping the pto and "Independent" because it wasn't dependent on the main clutch being engaged for it to operate.
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Dusty MI
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Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 6:54pm |
What I liked about the type such as the WD and others used is that say you were running a PTO combine and something happened that you needed to stop every thing, combine and ground travel, one motion, the foot clutch, did the job.
Dusty
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AJ
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Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 8:10pm |
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Steve, what kind of pump is that on that CA? That would be ideal for what I'm wanting.
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Can't fix stupid
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Eldon (WA)
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Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 8:11pm |
Dusty MI wrote:
What I liked about the type such as the WD and others used is that say you were running a PTO combine and something happened that you needed to stop every thing, combine and ground travel, one motion, the foot clutch, did the job.
Dusty |
That's exactly why I like my 175D's for tilling and brushhogging...some people think that the hand clutch/power director isn't user friendly like the new "independent" tractors, but I disagree!
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 11 Feb 2012 at 11:55pm |
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AJ, i dont know what kind of hydrualic pump it had. Took the photo at a show. I had layed one out once and problem is the belt tighen and alignment. This one had a double pulley on the alternator. Fan belt drives alternator, and alternator drives pump with a seperate belt.. solved a lot of problems i thought.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 12 Feb 2012 at 12:09pm |
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AJ
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Posted: 12 Feb 2012 at 3:51pm |
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Tucker did they make these for the allis C? If so, how go on the tractor and how hard would it be to find one to fit an allis C?
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 12 Feb 2012 at 4:14pm |
AJ wrote:
Tucker did they make these for the allis C? If so, how go on the tractor and how hard would it be to find one to fit an allis C? |
There is one for sale at that link. You take the magneto off, put the pump on and bolt the magneto to the pump. Plumb it up using an add on tank or the differential housing as a reservoir and add the valve you want with a return line.
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