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light switch and wirng on a 210 |
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Kevin210 ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 08 Oct 2018 Location: Indiana Points: 428 |
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Been redoing the light switch wires on the 210 for the fender lights and pulling my hair out.I always thought the way they worked was,
one click turns on gage light and back work light and inside fender lights, two clicks turns on both sets of fender lights, third click just turns on hazard lights and both fender lights stay on. Can any one confirm this, I can get back light on and inside fender lights and flasher lights, I don't seem to be able to get both fender lights with the second click of the switch,it's almost like there isn't enough spades on the light switch which I doubt is the issue and I just don't have wires on correct spades. I can't read the HL and RL and TL on the back of the switch. |
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21898 |
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On my 170 first click is two fender lights LOW beam and red rear light. Second click is high beam on same two fender lights. Third click is all four head lites and rear work light.
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Leadoff ![]() Silver Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Oct 2016 Location: Calgary Points: 288 |
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Kevin210
My 1975 185 ...... First Click - HL Dim - Dash/Gauges - Two Headlights (outside each side) dim - Flasher Lights both ways/both fenders - Solid Red Rear Light (on left fender) Second - HL Bright - Dash/Gauges - Flasher Lights same as above - All four Headlights bright - Solid Red Rear Light Third - FL Field Light - Dash/Gauges - All four Headlights bright - Rear Work Light mounted on left fender, on inside wall of fender The wiring, switches, lights, flasher control, are all OEM factory. The tractor was delivered with two Headlights, and my father purchased two additional headlights from the Dealer. It did not look right with the empty slots on the fenders!! Good luck with your project |
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1963 D17D Series III. 1965 D15 Series II. 1965 D17 Series IV. 1975 185. 1978 716H. 1979 716H. 1965 780 Harvester/1R&DC. 1957 Model 73 SC 4 Furrow Plow
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Kevin210 ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 08 Oct 2018 Location: Indiana Points: 428 |
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So what does RL and HL and TL stand for.I can't read the back of the switch except for bat and inst spades.
And on the second click none of the spades get hot which i always thought the second click turned outside fender lights on and third click turned hazard lights on with all four fender lights staying on which the inside lights go out because the spade loses juice on the third click. Can any one with a 210 confirm this or have I lost my memory completely. |
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Kevin210 ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 08 Oct 2018 Location: Indiana Points: 428 |
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It also looks like there are 6 wires coming from the light switch and only 5 spades on the switch,so I'm assuming one spade has to have 2 wires coming off of it just dont know which one.
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injpumpEd ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 5097 |
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My 210 is
First click is dash, warning blinkers, so basically daytime roading. second click is dash, warning blinkers, one set of fender lights(low beam), and red taillight inside rear work light. so nightime roading. Third click is field lights, dash, all 4 front fender lights, rear work white light.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Kevin210 ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 08 Oct 2018 Location: Indiana Points: 428 |
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That helps some inj ed but here's what throws me,on the switch the first click gives me 3 hot spades,2 of them are the inst spades with the coil and one other.it looks like on the second click the only thing that happens is the coil spades get a little brighter with the test light and i have a dead spade still until the third click which makes it hot but makes one of the spades dead that the first click made hot.looking at the diagram it looks so easy but is very confusing to this country boy lol.So do I need a cple of double connectors on these spades.
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Leadoff ![]() Silver Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Oct 2016 Location: Calgary Points: 288 |
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Kevin210
Found a very hard to read 210 Series II wiring diagram online. The light switch has the following spade terminals in CLOCKWISE ORDER...... Batt........with a black wire Spade with two wires connected, one is dark blue-white connected to the rear lights , second is orange to panel light RL..........dark blue connected to a special connector for the headlights HL.......black wire which also connects to the above headlights special connector TL.....connects to flasher controller(which has two wires exiting - tan/white & yellow) The special connector noted above has the RL and HL feeds into and four wires out of the connector, in two gangs to the LH and RH headlights ...........looks like it has internal crossover wiring you can see on the wiring diagram to feed both headlights. Do you have this special connector in your system? I am guessing AC located it to save wiring to each fender. It looks like it is needed to make the system work with the switch I will see if I can find a better quality wiring diagram Good luck with your project
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1963 D17D Series III. 1965 D15 Series II. 1965 D17 Series IV. 1975 185. 1978 716H. 1979 716H. 1965 780 Harvester/1R&DC. 1957 Model 73 SC 4 Furrow Plow
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Kevin210 ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 08 Oct 2018 Location: Indiana Points: 428 |
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That connector is in the wiring harness (I think) under the platform but not at the switch and I have the harness unplugged under the deck and have been checking there.
It just seems like mine was wired up to work like this,again best i remember, First click turned on dash light and back white light and inside fender lights. Second click turned outside fender lights on plus all the above,so all four fender lights on. Third click only added the hazard lights. Also on mine according to the diagram in the book pink wires and dark blue wires are fender lights. Blue wire with white stripe is back working light,it does not have a red tail light on it. Yellow and tan and white is hazard lights. |
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SteveM C/IL ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8628 |
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It makes no sense to have flasher on 3rd click......should be one of the first.
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Steve in NJ ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Andover, NJ Points: 11994 |
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Usually, the standard of the industry for switches & switch abbreviations is below. Not all OEM circuitry will go by abbreviations. In some cases certain function switches work for what the mfr's want to do for operation. It's always good to pull the prints or wiring diagrams to see how the OEM wanted certain switches used for function. Pretty tragic sometimes without a wiring diagram of the system. It will make you pull yer' hair out... ![]() RL- Running Lights HL- Headlights TL- Tail lamps Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Leadoff ![]() Silver Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Oct 2016 Location: Calgary Points: 288 |
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Kevin210
It makes sense the connector would be under the platform, to save wiring to the fenders lights. Are you sure you have the AC 210 OEM Light Switch? The internal contacts logic pattern might be different if a non AC OEM was installed over the years.......just checking I pulled out my 185 Operating Manual (1975 and later) .........the lights operating status is the same as I noted in my earlier post with one exception.....first click, all four headlights are on in the "DIM" mode ( I thought it was just the outer lights, checked, and sure enough, all four come on), and the flashers, panel, and red tail light (you noted your 210 does not have the red tail light). The second and third click light operation, is the same as my note. So.........assuming you have an OEM AC 210 Light Switch, it should be very similar to the 185 logic. AC usually standardized these types of things. As noted above by injpumpEd, headlights on/off dim etc might vary from the model year, or 185 vs 210, but the rest of the switch operation logic looks similar Also, the 1975 185 wiring diagram is very similar to the 210 Series II wiring diagram I had referred to in my earlier note. Clockwise around the light switch.......... Batt.......black wire power from the ammeter Inst.........two wires, orange to panel light and dark blue/white to auxiliary outlet (in my earlier post I indicated the dark blue/white went to the lights - wrong, checked the fuzzy 210 wiring diagram again online, and it goes to the auxiliary outlet) RL....dark blue wire to headlights and rear work light HL....pink wire connected to headlights TL...two wires, one a white to flasher controller and second a yellow to the red tail light According to the 185 light operation logic, click one and two should send power to the flasher control, the panel light, and a lower power level to the headlights for first click, and more power to the headlights for the second click The third click should power the panel light, full power to the headlights, and the rear work light. I could not find an internal contacts logic diagram for the light switch, which is what I have tried to outline above for each click position. As the switch dial is rotated to each click position, some of the five contacts are connected together inside the switch to give the desired lights operation. By elimination I would start with getting the flasher lights working in the first and second click positions, and off in the third click position. The flasher lights wiring and control appear to be completely separate from the headlights and rear work light. (to do the above step, you may want to disconnect wires from the RL and HL spades on the Light Switch, leave the Batt and Inst connected, and connect your flasher wire to TL) Next would be the rear work light, which should only be on in the third click position. Then work on the headlights, and decide if you want dim/off in the first click. The second click could be two or four lights, and dim or bright (it is your tractor and you can decide!!!) Then ensure all four headlights, at full power, and the rear light are on in the third click Finally, ensure the panel light is on in all click positions. Basically get one system working, and then move on to the next Good luck with you project |
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1963 D17D Series III. 1965 D15 Series II. 1965 D17 Series IV. 1975 185. 1978 716H. 1979 716H. 1965 780 Harvester/1R&DC. 1957 Model 73 SC 4 Furrow Plow
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Kevin210 ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 08 Oct 2018 Location: Indiana Points: 428 |
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I'm not absolutely positive it is an O.E.M. switch by no means,so with that being said I finally got them to work like they did before to best of my knowledge.
Inside lights and back work light come on with first click. The second click does not energize any thing other than maybe making the inside lights a smidge brighter. The third click turned the inside lights off and outside lights on and hazard lights on.So I did some of my own wiring and got the all four fender lights on with the hazard lights and the back light still on. I just want the fender lights on when in the field either just 2 or all four with back light with the first 2 clicks then when go to the road turn hazard lights with the third click,just my preference I reckon. I did get them working that way finally and appreciate all the help and still might invest in a new switch later on but for now I'm done with the lights after pulling my short gray out all day. So Thanks to all who helped. |
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FREEDGUY ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5396 |
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Why would you want the flasher on in the first click of the switch when it is only needed 1o% of the time that the field lights are needed ?? Just asking
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Leadoff ![]() Silver Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Oct 2016 Location: Calgary Points: 288 |
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Kevin210
Good for you, you got it running the way you want it. That is what is most important!!!! I would recommend you keep your notes, markups. as build's from the exercise so you have a good reference for the next time. I have learned over the years keeping old machines operating, especially on the electrical side, a record of what wire is connected to what wire/terminal is a good thing Keep those lights on!!!!
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1963 D17D Series III. 1965 D15 Series II. 1965 D17 Series IV. 1975 185. 1978 716H. 1979 716H. 1965 780 Harvester/1R&DC. 1957 Model 73 SC 4 Furrow Plow
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AC720Man ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 5232 |
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I always thought the order of how the lights worked was bassackwards. Why not dash, outside low beam, rear work light. Second click dash, both fender lights high beam, rear work light, 3rd click dash, low beam, rear red light and flashers? And then a 4th click dash high beams, red light and flashers? I was 3 when they designed my 190XT, not sure why I wasn’t asked lol. After all we are in the field way more than on the road, flashers should be the last selection. My light switch went out again even with LED lights taking less amperage, factory wiring and switches on these ole tractors were a afterthought IMO. New components are not what they used to be. Sounds like Ed is your best bet as he has a 210. I’m sorry for my rampage as it it doesn’t help you at all.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Steve in NJ ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Andover, NJ Points: 11994 |
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Rob, Most of these wiring systems were borderline at best when new. It was whatever vendor came in with the cheapest price got the purchase order to do the wiring. A lot of these old Tractors are wired goofy for sure.... Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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SteveM C/IL ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8628 |
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Where would you put it Freed? My 8070 goes flashers only, flashers and road lights,no flasher field lights low,no flasher field lights high. If you wanted flashers for road travel,why should you travel through the switch to get there?
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FREEDGUY ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5396 |
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In the 3'rd position, you should have headlights on with flashers IMO ![]() I can't tell on the APB pictures on a 210, but the switch indicator plate on a 190 shows the flasher on the far c/w position (3'rd) and a 210 has the same p# unless a cabbed 210 is different
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Leadoff ![]() Silver Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Oct 2016 Location: Calgary Points: 288 |
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Light Switch Control Design Opinion
My two cents CDN worth (0.016 USD)............ Allis Chalmers probably wanted a strong safety feature in the control design of the tractor lights for the 100 Series, as road travel safety for farm tractors was becoming more of an issue in the community. Roadway travel requirements were evolving, the Slow Moving Vehicle SMV signs were required, flashing lights, etc Road travel is implied in the first and second clicks of the switch, with the flasher engaged, so the operator gets a safety reminder when he engages the switch. Road travel is probably an everyday event on most farms (we had a county road running right thru the middle of our farm). The field work lights (third click) will always get engaged if required for night work, but to get there, the operator has to move the Light Switch past two road safety clicks. I expect that AC wanted the flashers on as soon as the lights were engaged, and force the operator to turn the flashers off with the third click for field work In my 1975 185 Operators Manual, there is a reference to disabling the flasher control, should the tractor end up is a Jurisdiction where flashers were not required or allowed. AC wanted to well out ahead of the changing requirements, but cover all bases. Only my opinion, but safety design, needed to be a key part of the Light Switch design, and I feel they addressed it adequately.
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1963 D17D Series III. 1965 D15 Series II. 1965 D17 Series IV. 1975 185. 1978 716H. 1979 716H. 1965 780 Harvester/1R&DC. 1957 Model 73 SC 4 Furrow Plow
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Kevin210 ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 08 Oct 2018 Location: Indiana Points: 428 |
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Ok,so I checked the agco parts web site last night and found 2 light switches that somewhat make sense with the wiring diagram.
One of them has 6 spades on it and the other has 8 spades but it did not have the big nut on it best i could tell to hold it in the dash. And as I mentioned a cple of times the switch I have has the coil wire on it and the HL and TL and RL but only has five spades which 2 of them with the coil work together or both at same time. What I couldn't figure out was that best I could tell the second click on this paticular switch does absolutely nothing. So with first click I wired it to turn on inside fender lights,dash light and back work light. Third click I wired it to turn on all four fender lights and hazard lights and back light. Now i did run a cple of jumper wires to get everything on with third click. I personally don't want hazard lights with first click when just going to the field,I want work lights,then second click all 4 fender lights and back work light. Then add hazard lights with 3 click for being on the road,again just my personal preference. |
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21898 |
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My 1968 One-Seventy should be the same as your tractor. FIRST CLICK: outer two headlights on dim and rear red light and flasher light on the fender. SECOND CLICK: exact same except now the two head lights are bright. THIRD CLICK: All four head lites on and rear work light on. Flasher and red lite out. The instrument panel light is on in ALL positions. This is the way they were from the factory and you do yours the way you like it. Your owners manual explains this in the operating controls section.
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SteveM C/IL ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8628 |
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It is YOUR opinion,nothing more. I just want flashers on the road so first notch is right. Don't need a "do-gooder" trying to get me to do it their way.
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FREEDGUY ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5396 |
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Part # AC-1098D on the DJ'S site says it all
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AC720Man ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 5232 |
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Steve and Dr Allis are correct, that is the way they came from the factory. Good explanation Leadoff and I would tend to agree with your thoughts. Didn’t mean to ruffle any feathers with my opinion, its not often we are on the road but then again its not often we work at night either lol. So my opinion was really pointless.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Leadoff ![]() Silver Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Oct 2016 Location: Calgary Points: 288 |
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AC720Man
Thank you. Just wanted to add some perspective to this very lively discussion, and help out Kevin210 I model railroad (yes.....many AC tractors on flat cars) and many times when model railroaders get in a discussion online about a particular item with various ways and opinions to get it done they usually end the debate with........"its my Railroad and I'll do it my way"
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1963 D17D Series III. 1965 D15 Series II. 1965 D17 Series IV. 1975 185. 1978 716H. 1979 716H. 1965 780 Harvester/1R&DC. 1957 Model 73 SC 4 Furrow Plow
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AC720Man ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 5232 |
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I hooked up my switch per factory specs, but that doesn’t mean I like it lol. I’m really surprised with LED lights that the darn switch has already went bad because I added another fender flasher since it only came with 1 from the factory. Guess I will be changing those out to LED also to drop the amperage draw. As I said before, too small of gauge wiring from the factory and weak new components causes issues in these old tractors. I will get it resolved soon.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Leadoff ![]() Silver Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Oct 2016 Location: Calgary Points: 288 |
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AC720Man
Switching to LED from incandescent significantly reduced the current for me in several applications, and provided a more reliable light source. LED lights are improving in color/appearance, and work in many applications with technology improvements Dimming is an issue with some LED light applications, mostly house type 120 VAC lights. Might be worth checking with your LED Supplier to ensure your existing switch and the LED lights are compatible. LED's are a direct current device so probably not an issue, but better to ask, given your recent switch issue Good luck with your LED upgrade
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1963 D17D Series III. 1965 D15 Series II. 1965 D17 Series IV. 1975 185. 1978 716H. 1979 716H. 1965 780 Harvester/1R&DC. 1957 Model 73 SC 4 Furrow Plow
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