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KW Project

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DonDittmar View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonDittmar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2021 at 6:55am
Originally posted by BPM75 BPM75 wrote:

Originally posted by DonDittmar DonDittmar wrote:

It is a solid platform, the iron has proven itself through the test of time. The same base block will make 1000+ HP in a marine application.

When they went from the B to an E, they had a few issues, albeit they were electronic issues and had nothing to do with the iron or engine design, but those issues themselves were quickly worked out. 

And yes, CAT's choice to stay away from EGR and go with a twin turbo setup hurt them in the long run. After studying it, I see what they were trying to do and I understand them not wanting to cycle dirty exhaust back into the intake air, but the twin turbo setup was maybe not the best option. Hindsight is 20/20.........

There is and a lot of guys do it, but its not 100% legal as the engine no longer meets emissions for the model year it was produced. 

Not a lot to it and its easily done, but I wont go into details. Dont want to by giving you boys any illegal info LOLTongueLOLLOL



Isn't there a way to convert the accert back to single turbo? Seems like I heard that a few years ago, a company that ran several of those was buying a kit that came with turbo, piping, and everything needed to convert. I'm pretty sure it wasn't offered by Cat but I could be wrong.
Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"

1968 D15D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
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SteveM C/IL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2021 at 8:42am
Cat was king until EPA ruined everything. I had a 425hp 3406B for 17yrs. Was simple and easy to work on. Current C-15 Acert is doing well. Wished I had detailed info to do cam timing as is intimidating. Can't be that hard,just don't know. Have changed injectors,wiring harness and adjusted ALL that crap up top....takes a while LOL. As an aside... was reading up on "Rattler" harmonic balancers. They use rollers in bores that really only rattle as the engine stops. Was replacing "peanut" gasket as repair shop had it off and seal was twisted and oozing.....there it was! The cam gear has the "Rattler" technology. Thought that was kinda cool.
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BPM75 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BPM75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2021 at 12:42am
Originally posted by SteveM C/IL SteveM C/IL wrote:

Cat was king until EPA ruined everything. I had a 425hp 3406B for 17yrs. Was simple and easy to work on. Current C-15 Acert is doing well. Wished I had detailed info to do cam timing as is intimidating. Can't be that hard,just don't know. Have changed injectors,wiring harness and adjusted ALL that crap up top....takes a while LOL. As an aside... was reading up on "Rattler" harmonic balancers. They use rollers in bores that really only rattle as the engine stops. Was replacing "peanut" gasket as repair shop had it off and seal was twisted and oozing.....there it was! The cam gear has the "Rattler" technology. Thought that was kinda cool.



Yes the B and C mechanicals are pretty hard t beat, I sure miss working on them Lol. E model and C15 even though electronic are still pretty simple and reliable engines in my opinion. Are you wanting to change cam timing or just set timing after a repair or replacement?
59 D17 gas nf, 66 XT 190, 69 220.
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DMiller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2021 at 3:45am
Only big job with cam gears is setting backlash for that ominous gear train. Only one gear is adjustable and is why the Peanut Cover is shaped as it is to allow access to adjust that gear. As to timing is no adjusting it either is or is not on time, crankshaft gets rotated until drop pin slips into hole in flywheel(required) then with peanut cover off validate the cam gear mark is pointed straight up at the little pointer on top of the housing. Can be 180 off where have to rotate crank one more full rev. Everything else is electronic.
Unlike a Cummins no special can keys or specific model cam gears just TDC and done.
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DMiller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2021 at 2:46pm
Been after it readying for replacement block arriving this next week.  Drive lines down(Short one need support bearing anyway), trans off engine sitting on jack, head and upper structure off so am actually beyond back where all this started.

A few more small disconnects, then mounts and engine to be on floor, after that will raise frame remove the frame tool box and pull trans out from under for DEEP Cleaning and any needed repairs.  Frame to be dragged outside, spray down with Diesel then simple green, leave both soak a time, then pressure wash and return to shop as dries out.  Trans gets done raise frame, reset under and rehang tool box. Then order a clutch(15" two plate).

Then is on to engine as rebuild funds to purchase the machine work and all the materials to reassemble.  Will be awhile.








Edited by DMiller - 31 Oct 2021 at 5:18pm
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DougG View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2021 at 3:05pm
Serious, the block is bad ? 
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DMiller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2021 at 5:15pm
Is the Only aspect left.
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2021 at 6:34pm
blocked the nozzle ports and blew air in Air Compressor oil feed line, Air exhausting behind No 1 Main and High in block, Gallery has to be cracked, have to pull engine fully and remove crankshaft to validate, it IS coming out presently.

Hope you can verify that after pulling the motor.. Would be nice to know for SURE before you jump in with both feet..
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 3:52am
Inability to see past steer axle and other frame structures made it impossible where so many others in the business agreed, time to drag it out rather than drag it on and get it in the open where can see the problem.

Edited by DMiller - 01 Nov 2021 at 3:53am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2021 at 8:42pm
Originally posted by BPM75 BPM75 wrote:

Originally posted by SteveM C/IL SteveM C/IL wrote:

Cat was king until EPA ruined everything. I had a 425hp 3406B for 17yrs. Was simple and easy to work on. Current C-15 Acert is doing well. Wished I had detailed info to do cam timing as is intimidating. Can't be that hard,just don't know. Have changed injectors,wiring harness and adjusted ALL that crap up top....takes a while LOL. As an aside... was reading up on "Rattler" harmonic balancers. They use rollers in bores that really only rattle as the engine stops. Was replacing "peanut" gasket as repair shop had it off and seal was twisted and oozing.....there it was! The cam gear has the "Rattler" technology. Thought that was kinda cool.



Yes the B and C mechanicals are pretty hard t beat, I sure miss working on them Lol. E model and C15 even though electronic are still pretty simple and reliable engines in my opinion. Are you wanting to change cam timing or just set timing after a repair or replacement?
Just to retime after repair/replacement. Not happy paying a shop rediculess prices then having a shoddy mechanic do the work. You would not believe how out of adjustment everything on the top was. I don't trust anybodys work there. Has never been right when someone else does it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BPM75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2021 at 6:28am
Gotcha Steve. Well I think someone posted above about it but it's really pretty simple. Pin the flywheel, align mark on cam gear with notch or grove at top of front cover. There is a tool for setting the back lash on gears, if doing a cam replacement or head gasket I don't really recall having to adj one but if replacing head or completely tearing down front gear train then have had to adj.
As far as quality of workmanship anymore....we could have a whole other post about that! Lol. Majority of these shops anymore can't find help let alone good help. I've been working in shops for almost 27 years, truck dealership, CaseIH dealer and a company shop, same story no matter where. It has definitely got worse over the years. And sometimes even a good experience mechanic will make a mistake but it seems like there are more flunkeys than experienced anymore. And it's not going to get any better, very few of the younger generation want to go into this line of work, and alot that do already know everything and don't want to listen.
59 D17 gas nf, 66 XT 190, 69 220.
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DMiller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2021 at 3:37pm
Engine on the floor, need to strip it fully and then get it out of the way.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnColo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2021 at 10:37pm
Another case of two steps forward and one step back, although lately it looks like it's been just 3 steps back.  Good luck on the future engine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2021 at 12:40pm
So what was the verdict on the engine Dave ?
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DMiller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2021 at 3:55pm
Not got the block inverted to remove crank yet, will not know until then.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2021 at 4:22pm
OK,, thanks,,  in life - its always something 
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DMiller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2021 at 4:36pm
Had a Charity event today, motorcycle ride event for children with less advantage.  Spent all day working it.
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DonDittmar View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonDittmar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2021 at 6:07am
I am watching this thread close LOL. This issue has me puzzled and I am interested in seeing what the root cause is....
Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"

1968 D15D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farmboy520 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2021 at 8:50am
It's like a good detective book or show, can't wait to find out "who" done it.
On the farm: Agco Allis 9695, 7060, 7010, R62, Farmall H, and Farmall F20 (Great Grandpa's)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2021 at 7:31pm
Crankshaft hanging on the hoist chain, did some other work, stripping block to get to where can get to the Main journals and inside the block.

Clutch was B.A.D. bad, pilot bearing was all but at self destruct mode so I dare suspect someone up above was hiding the issue from me to MAKE me pull the engine out.  Left Rear Motor Mount cushion steel side is broken, finding all manner of failures just awaiting some idjit as me to put this behemoth in gear on the street.

So bottom line is I found the Issue.  Mains.  Set a piece of Red Plastigage on the crank with the block on its head side, eliminated the need to block and jack as I had tried on #5 main to get a reading which was within spec, is not now.  

Red plastigage did NOT squish at all on #4(Thrust) and #7(flywheel weight), puts the bearing clearance Over .010, likely closer to .015 and in NO WAY would this have been able to support Oil Pressure.
Did some digging where I had no access early on until around March/April to get on SIS Cats 'Service Information System' site.  Had taken a Photo of the Old Bearings to Order my IPD Parts, did not realize they expected ME to know what was in the engine and would tell them not by bearing crossover numbers but actual sizing, I gave them Bearing Numbers.  So the engine had 4W-5700 Main shells, labeled 063OS(0.63mm)  Or for us Murican Idjits, around a .005 Inch 'Oversize'(OS), IPD sent me STD's.  Monday will begin orders for OEM CAT Bearing shells, Rods and Mains, as I am not really happy with IPD currently.  Will still use their seals and gaskets as have their sleeves and pistons to reinstall.  Rear Main seal was oozing so an out of frame it is.
With the Crank out I can fully Mic it, then get the block cleaned and sparkly along with other pieces, so can paint this backstabber before goes back into a CLEANED up Truck Frame with new rear mounts.

Once get back calmed and cleaned will post photos tomorrow.
God does look after the Idjits, gave me a one final chance before spit that clutch all across the highway.  15.5" Two Plate Eaton.  Will also install Reman WP, Reman Fuel Transfer Pump along with other small concerns that could have bit me really hard later.




Edited by DMiller - 20 Nov 2021 at 7:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2021 at 5:54am
The Clutch:







Rear Main and bearing check





The Good Lord will give us alternate chances, owing to our own decisions on good or bad.

Clutch could have grenaded like a bomb or bound tight as a welded assembly.  


Edited by DMiller - 21 Nov 2021 at 5:56am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Bank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2021 at 9:30am
I agree with you there was a reason you had to go through this. Do I understand correctly you can reuse the engine block? I was afraid you were going to have to replace it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2021 at 9:39am
Block is fine as best can see, did purchase one as a Just In Case but will sell it as get this reassembled.  Also made a error as to mm/in, is .025 Undersize crankshaft.
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DMiller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2021 at 10:37am
Biggest news of the day, the project may end up in someone else's garage as Wife has made the decision will be a Divorce by January, as soon as all the Family stuff she scheduled is completed into December.  Entire Farm will be gone by spring along with all the trappings we have assembled.  Will be back to where I was in 1975 only now will be retired instead of training for a new job.  47 years on my own and 37 years with one gal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Michael V (NM) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2021 at 10:49am
 I was gonna say,, need to reseal the front and rear structure since you are already this far in,,, then I read last entry, so, is the project jus gonna get moved? or hafta be sold?

Big D won't happen that fast, unless ya'll have already agreed on everything....I been at it since June.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2021 at 10:55am
I was figuring will be at least until June to get it done, the truck may be drivable in a month or two depending how hard I feed the CC bills.  But ONLY drivable to load up to move, is pretty well worthless beyond a salvager right now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2021 at 2:11pm
Spoke to a number of Cat techs since
Seems the 4W oversize is for bearing bores but a standard crank, I need to bore gauge the full seven to see if all have been resized, then check the additional block I bought as it may be STD bores and use the new Std Bearings in it sell the OE block.
Gets ever more confusing!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonDittmar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2021 at 6:06am
2436718 is the main bearing kit from CAT in STD size. Good luck finding them. 3400 series main bearings have been on eternal backorder for a while now. The kit comes with all of the main bearings plus the thrust bearings. 
Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"

1968 D15D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonDittmar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2021 at 6:10am
Pilot bearing is a standard 6306 bearing. I am guessing you would want a 308925-20 clutch, that was is rated at 1860 torque. 308925-25 is rated at 2050 torque. 308925-82 is rated at 1700 torque. Dont make the mistake of going with the heavy clutch. You want the clutch to be the weak link. Select the clutch that matches your engine torque rating
Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"

1968 D15D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonDittmar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2021 at 6:12am
10r2356 is the CAT reman flywheel. 1425868 is the CAT rear main seal. You will need the installer for the rear main. It is a unitzed seal. 
Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"

1968 D15D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
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