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FREEDGUY 
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 Topic: JI CASE DEMISE ?
Posted: 11 Jun 2021 at 7:53pm |
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I'm pretty sure that from what I've read over the years is that "management/lack of took down ALLIS, what took down CASE ??
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FREEDGUY
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Posted: 11 Jun 2021 at 7:54pm |
 FREEDGUY wrote:
I'm pretty sure that from what I've read over the years is that "management/lack of " took down ALLIS, what took down CASE ?? |
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Darwin W. Kurtz
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Posted: 11 Jun 2021 at 9:32pm |
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CASE didn't go down, they bought International to form CASE International. I always understood from my dad that labor disputes took International down
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truckerfarmer
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Posted: 11 Jun 2021 at 10:26pm |
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Case is still alive. Case is the construction division. We have a Case dozer, and a Case loader at work.
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Tbone95
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Posted: 12 Jun 2021 at 6:23am |
Darwin W. Kurtz wrote:
CASE didn't go down, they bought International to form CASE International. I always understood from my dad that labor disputes took International down |
Hmm…I thought Tenneco bought both of them, reorganized, and kept the Case name, well made it first, forming CaseIH.
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Jim.ME
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Posted: 12 Jun 2021 at 6:38am |
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 12 Jun 2021 at 10:34am |
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Fiat - owns them - as it also has control of NEW HOLLAND , Case Industrial , FIAT ALLIS , and automotive as in Chrysler Corp , Jeep , and now part of French auto industry .
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 12 Jun 2021 at 11:47am |
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Jimmy Carter happened
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Ray54
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Posted: 12 Jun 2021 at 2:41pm |
Reagan let USSR (Russia) buy grain here in the USA. Farmers made real money for a year or two. Carter came along and put USSR in time out cause of taking over Afghanistan. Farmers had been buying new equipment like crazy.  Everybody thought the good times where here and would be here forever. As part of the time out no more grain to Russia. Grain price drops like rock. All tractor companies have millions sitting in unsold equipment.
One of the first corporate raider outfits was Tenneco they had bought JI Case co in the late 60's already. In 1984 85 IH was selling anything they could get a buyer for. Tenneco bought the farm equipment part of IH. Dresser Industries bought the construction equipment part of IH. IH managed to keep the truck building part going until the last year. Which is now part of VW.
Tenneco was going to sell piece of CaseIH off but one guy from the original Case Co had enough influence to keep them from doing it. Finally CaseIH was sold to Fiat which also latter bought Ford New Holland.
AC was selling out too. Deutz bought AC farm equipment  an screwed up AC big time. AGCO was formed by big shots from AC with outside investor money. Things where starting to look up and the brains running AGCO where all on one plane that crashed. The money that took over was more interested in selling farm equipment to the rest of the world rather than USA. Which brings us to how AGCO has very few dealers in the USA to what they could of had and no orange tractors to hint of the old AC.
I think it was reported here AC as a company was still around until about a year ago selling electric control equipment. Very small with less than 100 total employees.  But totally gone now too I think.
So yes the to big to fail management was already around back in the 80's. The only farm equipment company with big wigs in and of the USA is the Green with Yellow wheels outfit. I guess AGCO might be headquartered in the USA but still looks to see what Europe wants rather than what the USA wants.
Edited by Ray54 - 12 Jun 2021 at 2:51pm
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sparky
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Posted: 12 Jun 2021 at 3:04pm |
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Demise this Demise that. He’s learned a new word🤪
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It's the color tractor my grandpa had!
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TomC
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Posted: 12 Jun 2021 at 3:14pm |
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Oh yes, he's just a brilliant ray of sunshine ain't he.
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DiyDave
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Posted: 12 Jun 2021 at 5:40pm |
Ray54 wrote:
Reagan let USSR (Russia) buy grain here in the USA. Farmers made real money for a year or two. Carter came along and put USSR in time out cause of taking over Afghanistan. Farmers had been buying new equipment like crazy. Everybody thought the good times where here and would be here forever. As part of the time out no more grain to Russia. Grain price drops like rock. All tractor companies have millions sitting in unsold equipment.
One of the first corporate raider outfits was Tenneco they had bought JI Case co in the late 60's already. In 1984 85 IH was selling anything they could get a buyer for. Tenneco bought the farm equipment part of IH. Dresser Industries bought the construction equipment part of IH. IH managed to keep the truck building part going until the last year. Which is now part of VW.
Tenneco was going to sell piece of CaseIH off but one guy from the original Case Co had enough influence to keep them from doing it. Finally CaseIH was sold to Fiat which also latter bought Ford New Holland.
AC was selling out too. Deutz bought AC farm equipment an screwed up AC big time. AGCO was formed by big shots from AC with outside investor money. Things where starting to look up and the brains running AGCO where all on one plane that crashed. The money that took over was more interested in selling farm equipment to the rest of the world rather than USA. Which brings us to how AGCO has very few dealers in the USA to what they could of had and no orange tractors to hint of the old AC.
I think it was reported here AC as a company was still around until about a year ago selling electric control equipment. Very small with less than 100 total employees. But totally gone now too I think.
So yes the to big to fail management was already around back in the 80's. The only farm equipment company with big wigs in and of the USA is the Green with Yellow wheels outfit. I guess AGCO might be headquartered in the USA but still looks to see what Europe wants rather than what the USA wants.
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Hate to burst the bubble of this post, but Reagan came after carter, like the dawn after a storm...
Edited by DiyDave - 12 Jun 2021 at 5:40pm
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KJCHRIS
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Posted: 12 Jun 2021 at 9:09pm |
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I thinkTeneco Corp bought JI Case early/mid 70's then 10 - 15 years later the got IH Ag Div. When IH imploded. Not sure when they got David Brown if before or after JI Case. I do remember people saying that JIC ag parts almost doubled when they bought them, I know the Case const equip parts went up a lot. Same happened when they got IH Ag.
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AC 200, CAH, AC185D bareback, AC 180D bareback, D17 III, WF. D17 Blackbar grill, NF. D15 SFW. Case 1175 CAH, Bobcat 543B,
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Kansas99
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Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 5:04pm |
Ray, pretty much had it right except Reagan was after Mr. Peanut's grain embargo and the out of control inflation that lead to record interest by Dec. 1980, which crippled farmers and caused the whole ag mess of the 80's.
Also Fiat owned Ford and New Holland before guying CaseIH and when it purchased CaseIH the government forced them to sell of one FWA and FWD line, so they sold the Ford/Versatile line to Buhler(a self made millionaire that even spoke at JD dealer meetings) Later Rostelmash bought majority stake in Buhler and now it's come full circle back to Versatile and even though the comrades own the majority the Versatiles are still reliable tractors like years ago.
I should add that Teneco owned a 50/50 share with AGCO in Hesston hay equipment and their agreement was that if one sold the other had first chance to buy. The government also made Fiat sell it's interest in Hesston after buying CaseIH and that left AGCO in the drivers seat because they had first shot and Fiat had no choice, so they bought the other 50% for little to nothing. I was also told that about a year after AGCO bought out Fiat a bank in Hesston called and there was about $5 mill setting in a account left by Teneco as part of the Hesston division and AGCO looked at the terms of sale from Fiat and that made the money theirs, so they got a $5 mill gift for buying the other 50%.  (I don't know if that's a fact but it came from a person who worked for AGCO at Hesston)
Edited by Kansas99 - 13 Jun 2021 at 5:19pm
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DougG
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Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 6:07pm |
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LOL, Thatd be real nice forgetting about 5 million just setting in an account - yup
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Ray54
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Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 6:40pm |
How could I of forgot O'l Tricky Dick. I was thinking of O'l Earl Butts running the USDA. When I was a watching the Polly Dollies of California State Polytechnic University, San Luis Obispo (Cal Poly) Earl buzzed into town and gave a speech about we needed to plant fence row to fence row so there would enough grain to keep Russia fed. But the first fuel shortage was also going on. Only buy on odd days of the week if your license number stated with a odd, and the same for evens. When gas under 30 cents a gallon went away forever. He stood up there and said he would make sure farmers had fuel.
Went down hill from there to Ford and his W I N buttons or wipe inflation now. And about 50 years latter we are on the same cliff with inflation about to bankrupt all of us.
So please except my apology for mixing Nixon and Regan up here.
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FREEDGUY
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Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 6:24pm |
Kansas99 wrote:
Ray, pretty much had it right except Reagan was after Mr. Peanut's grain embargo and the out of control inflation that lead to record interest by Dec. 1980, which crippled farmers and caused the whole ag mess of the 80's.
Also Fiat owned Ford and New Holland before guying CaseIH and when it purchased CaseIH the government forced them to sell of one FWA and FWD line, so they sold the Ford/Versatile line to Buhler(a self made millionaire that even spoke at JD dealer meetings) Later Rostelmash bought majority stake in Buhler and now it's come full circle back to Versatile and even though the comrades own the majority the Versatiles are still reliable tractors like years ago.
I should add that Teneco owned a 50/50 share with AGCO in Hesston hay equipment and their agreement was that if one sold the other had first chance to buy. The government also made Fiat sell it's interest in Hesston after buying CaseIH and that left AGCO in the drivers seat because they had first shot and Fiat had no choice, so they bought the other 50% for little to nothing. I was also told that about a year after AGCO bought out Fiat a bank in Hesston called and there was about $5 mill setting in a account left by Teneco as part of the Hesston division and AGCO looked at the terms of sale from Fiat and that made the money theirs, so they got a $5 mill gift for buying the other 50%. (I don't know if that's a fact but it came from a person who worked for AGCO at Hesston) |
Kansas, could you elaborate on why the government made Fiat sell off "divisions" of different holdings ? Thanks
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Ray54
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Posted: 17 Jun 2021 at 10:02am |
History is so important. If you don't want to repeat the same mistakes others have already made. Now this Woke thing of erasing all history about good things this country has done.
There are anti monopoly laws in this country. Just that it seems most times they are not enforced.  Or the big money buys government officials off. They where enacted in the early 1900's, one of the historic cases was splitting up of Standard Oil. Since gas prices are a interest of yours. It helps a little having more than 2 or 3 companies selling it all.
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JohnColo
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Posted: 17 Jun 2021 at 10:53am |
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My understanding on the Hesston sale was that since Fiat owned FNH, with Hesston they owned something like 65% of the haying equipment business and the feds didn't like that. I was happy to see Hesston as a semi independent company, even if AGCO insists on calling it "Hesston by Massey Ferguson". Most of the dealers don't even refer to it that way, much less the farmers who run the equipment. I did own an MF 124 baler which I liked, until I bought my first Hesston 4600 and discovered how much more capacity it had.
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Kansas99
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Posted: 17 Jun 2021 at 1:24pm |
That sounds about right John and they basically owned CaseIH(steiger) fwd and new holland (versatile) fwd and same with the fwa that is why buhler ended up with what is now versatile. Although you can buy a CaseIH hay equipment it's just rebadged new holland and new holland tractors are just rebadged caseIH. I had once heard that AGCO tried to buy the new holland(versatile) line but it was a no go for them as well. AGCO also tried to buy Great Plains but it never fell through as well, my guess is the same reason but I don't know that for sure.
John, the guys that swath for me run a hesston swather, which about everyone does or wants too out here, but if you tell them that it's a Massey Ferguson they get fighting mad. Those guys are 100% John Deere on their farm except for that "Hesston by Massey" swather, that should pretty much tell anyone what they need to know about a Hesston swather.
Last time I was in Garden City the new holland dealer had 1 new swather on the lot, the John Deere dealer had 1 new swather on lot, the CaseIh at that time sold massey too and they had 5 hesstons on the lot and zero caseIh and LDI on the other end of town had 9 new hesston swathers on their lot. There's a lot of alfalfa and sudan in the sw and swathers for sale are: all competition combined for 2 and Hesston 14 
Edited by Kansas99 - 17 Jun 2021 at 1:36pm
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Ray54
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Posted: 17 Jun 2021 at 1:34pm |
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I just saw someone say Kubota now owns Great Plains. If that is true all they need is a combine be full line and be up with the big boys.
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Kansas99
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Posted: 17 Jun 2021 at 1:40pm |
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Ray, yes I believe that's correct and Kubota is in bed with versatile too. The small versatile fwa and a 7000 series kubota are the same I think. Made in CA at versatile plant but use Kubota motor, or I think that is correct.
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JohnColo
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Posted: 17 Jun 2021 at 11:38pm |
I think Kubota makes combines in Asia but they are too small for N America. According to the Kubota web site, both the 190 and 210 HP tractors have Cummins B6.7 engines.
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