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C15TA 
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Joined: 06 Oct 2019
Location: Castleton ON
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 Topic: I need some help or advice
Posted: 12 Mar 2025 at 9:06pm |
I have a gas
170 and a diesel 170 that both have issues. The gas smokes, needs a clutch and
the hydraulic pump needs another rebuild The diesel I have put about one hour
on it since purchasing it three years ago. It has been a constant source of
pain. Last week I lost a 25X32 building because of the snow load and need to
get a tractor heavy enough to clean up the mess. I have spotted a Case IH 585
with a 2200 loader (3900 hrs) and a
Massey 255 with a Buhler loader. I don’t know much about either of these other
than the Case having short clutch life. I am asking for a little input, advice or
insider knowledge on either of these tractors… Maybe I should try to resurrect
the gas 170 and limp through with it. Any thoughts are welcome…
Thanks, Barry
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DrAllis
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Posted: 12 Mar 2025 at 9:15pm |
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The 170 needs an overhaul if it smokes blue. HOWEVER, just put in four AC Delco 46 XL hot spark plugs and add a quart of 30 wt oil whenever it gets down to the add mark. $100 will buy a LOT of oil and the tractor will still run fine. New foot clutch and what's the hydraulic pump doing ?? Bet it's not the pump. Easy decision.
Edited by DrAllis - 12 Mar 2025 at 10:18pm
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C15TA
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Location: Castleton ON
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Posted: 13 Mar 2025 at 7:10am |
Thanks for the reply Doc. The oil I can live with. The
hydraulic pump grenaded shortly after I bought it. It also snapped the previously welded pinion that
drives it. A local ex dealer supplied a new pump and used pinion and it worked
good but was very noisey. I paid for a new pump from Allis but I am pretty sure
it was a China
unit and it was very noisey. After a couple of years I had some stiff steering
so I pulled the pump and replaced the worn and scored parts. After a couple of
years it got stiff again and then cracked the center section. A buddy who is a
millwright and did all kinds of pump and hydraulic work for General Motors took
it into the factory and went over it with all new Allis parts. Now the steering
is acting the same again. You have to turn the wheel very slow. The 500 loader
has good pressure and would lift the Titanic. I love this tractor and that is
why I jumped at the 170 diesel which has been a disappointment. I had the gas
booked for an overhaul and clutch but after nine months of being put on the
back burner I gave up.
Barry
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DSeries4
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Points: 7434
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Posted: 13 Mar 2025 at 2:33pm |
 C15TA wrote:
Thanks for the reply Doc. The oil I can live with. The
hydraulic pump grenaded shortly after I bought it. It also snapped the previously welded pinion that
drives it. A local ex dealer supplied a new pump and used pinion and it worked
good but was very noisey. I paid for a new pump from Allis but I am pretty sure
it was a China
unit and it was very noisey. After a couple of years I had some stiff steering
so I pulled the pump and replaced the worn and scored parts. After a couple of
years it got stiff again and then cracked the center section. A buddy who is a
millwright and did all kinds of pump and hydraulic work for General Motors took
it into the factory and went over it with all new Allis parts. Now the steering
is acting the same again. You have to turn the wheel very slow. The 500 loader
has good pressure and would lift the Titanic. I love this tractor and that is
why I jumped at the 170 diesel which has been a disappointment. I had the gas
booked for an overhaul and clutch but after nine months of being put on the
back burner I gave up.
Barry |
I live in Port Hope, what is wrong with the 170 diesel? What kind of hydraulic fluid are you using in the gas 170? Very odd that all your pumps are going bad - they are not usually a problem on these tractors.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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DrAllis
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Posted: 13 Mar 2025 at 3:04pm |
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I'd sure be looking at the screen inside the hydraulic sump. It is very fine, and if dirty, could be restricting oil flow to the pump. I can count on one hand how many D-17 IV and One-Seventy hydraulic pumps I've ever gone thru.
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C15TA
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Joined: 06 Oct 2019
Location: Castleton ON
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Posted: 13 Mar 2025 at 8:38pm |
Thanks for
the replies guys. DSeries it’s a small world. I live north of the Big Apple and
pass Port Hope twice daily on my way to and from work in Whitby so we are neighbours.
I can’t remember the brand but I use fluid that I bought from Trewins the old
Allis dealer in Blackstock.
Dr. I must
confess I haven’t checked the screen in the sump for years. When the pump blew
the first time Earl at Trewins cleaned the screen out and it had a rip in it so
he brazed it up. It was NLA and he couldn’t find a used one. He told me then
that it was important and it was one of the first things that I did when I
bought the diesel. The first thing I noticed on the diesel was how much quieter
the pump was.
Thanks again.. Barry
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DSeries4
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: 15 Mar 2025 at 9:40am |
C15TA wrote:
Thanks for
the replies guys. DSeries it’s a small world. I live north of the Big Apple and
pass Port Hope twice daily on my way to and from work in Whitby so we are neighbours.
I can’t remember the brand but I use fluid that I bought from Trewins the old
Allis dealer in Blackstock.
Dr. I must
confess I haven’t checked the screen in the sump for years. When the pump blew
the first time Earl at Trewins cleaned the screen out and it had a rip in it so
he brazed it up. It was NLA and he couldn’t find a used one. He told me then
that it was important and it was one of the first things that I did when I
bought the diesel. The first thing I noticed on the diesel was how much quieter
the pump was.
Thanks again.. Barry |
Earle really is a legend for Allis Chalmers knowledge in the area. I have dealt with him for years - lots of good stories too!
Regarding your hydraulic problems, there must be some contamination in the system that keeps destroying your pumps. I would drain the entire torque tube and flush it with diesel. Debris could also be in the valve body and loader cylinders as well. What is wrong with your 170 diesel? I have a line on a 175 diesel that I might be getting for parts. 170 and 175 share a lot of parts, so I might be able to help you out.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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C15TA
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Joined: 06 Oct 2019
Location: Castleton ON
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Posted: 16 Mar 2025 at 9:24pm |
The 170 gas
has been sitting behind the barn covered with a tarp for the last three years.
I guess this summer I will have to try and resurrect it. The diesel is in the
barn waiting for a hydraulic repair. I
used it for a few minutes after I finally got the fuel system sorted and the left ram
for the three point started to puke fluid. I have soaked the hair pin and the
pin with penetrant for months but it is rusted solid. I think the next step is
to dig out the hot wrench. I had the same problem with the gas 170 shortly after
I got it and I managed to drill the pin with progressively larger drill bits
and finally got it. It was quite a job and I was 25 years younger. I think I
can get in there with the torch and shave the end of the pin off enough to remove
it. Since it has been only running in the barn the engine has developed a noise
that wasn’t there before. I am not
familiar enough with diesels to identify it. DSeries4 thanks for your reply.
Barry
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DrAllis
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Posted: 16 Mar 2025 at 9:47pm |
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I reseal those cylinder in chassis. Leave the barrel on the tractor and pull out the rod.
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tbran
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Paris Tn
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Posted: 17 Mar 2025 at 9:37am |
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Not sure of all the details here - but if you 'grenaded' the pump and then the drive, it is usually due to stuck or plugged relief valve in the valve block for the remotes and three pt hitch..
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When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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C15TA
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Location: Castleton ON
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Posted: 17 Mar 2025 at 8:42pm |
Dr, I had
read somewhere about rebuilding it on the tractor but discounted it due to
space limitations. The rams on mine are the later model large ones. I just read
the IT manual and it says remove the circlips but doesn’t say how to access
them. I have been looking online this evening for a proper Allis manual to
download but haven’t found one.
tbran I have
had the relief valve out numerous times and it seemed okay to an inexperienced
eye. I put a pressure switch in one of the outlets at the back to watch the
pressure but maybe I should move it to the dash where it is always visible.
Thanks guys…Barry
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DrAllis
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Posted: 17 Mar 2025 at 8:49pm |
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I know you have the large cylinder rods. I didn't say "I rebuild them in chassis" and lie about it. That's the way I do them if I can't get the barrel clip or pin removed.
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ekjdm14
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Location: Manchester UK
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Posted: 18 Mar 2025 at 7:14am |
I don't think he was suggesting you were dishonest about or ignorant of the later cylinder rods Doc, just think he was looking at it & thought it'd be more of a pain working in-situ than removing the pin.
I've been here long enough to realize you've forgotten more AC facts than most of us will ever learn, but I've also been more active over my first 6 months here than Barry has over the last 6 years so I've read a lot more of your posts to know this  Looking at a couple of photos I can see it looks tight for access but can't see anything jumping out that'd make me feel it wasn't possible, just that it'd be a PITA working down there.
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C15TA
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Location: Castleton ON
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Posted: 19 Mar 2025 at 11:30am |
Thanks ekjdm14 for coming to my defence. Dr. I am sorry if
I offended you with my reply. My intention was to get some guidance in how to
access the circlip not to suggest it was impossible to do and that you were
lying. I am on this site reading almost every day and like others realize you
know what you are talking about. I also understand the limitations of this semi
old (78) body. I question whether it will bend down in there and more
importantly can I extract myself. Knee and shoulder operations slow you down. I
included the info on the large rams because on the gas 170 I changed the
smaller leaking ones to the larger model because Earl had two fresh ones and I
only had to pay for the kits.
Barry
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