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DougG 
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Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Location: Mo
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 Topic: I H demise - that was something
Posted: 10 Jul 2021 at 2:39pm |
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Bored today and in the house cause of rain, looking at IH,S demise - wow , that was much more serious then Allis at the time ; awful how the old time giants ceo,s just couldnt see what was going on in real time and lose it all , they relied on 225 lenders to support them already in 1981 , sad
Edited by DougG - 10 Jul 2021 at 3:18pm
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Coke-in-MN
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Afton MN
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Posted: 10 Jul 2021 at 6:40pm |
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When hard times hit the Ag industry and also the heavy equipment industry - a shakeout happens .
I had looked at a IH backhoe and dealer wanted $38,000 for it new on their lot , then about a year later it was still sitting and he offered it to me for $18,500 - thing is I was short on work then and had to pass .
IH then sold their construction line to Dresser but the backhoes ended up being orphaned as dropped from both IH and Dresser .
But then AC did a deal with Fiat and also selling loaders and backhoe and fork lifts off to CDS - then that was sold to Ingersoll Rand - and sold off later again .
Same as I looked at a Fiat Allis 35,000 lb excavator a AC dealer had $85,000 and at trade show later that winter dealer offered me that same machine for $42,000 - believe it was made by Samsung for Fiat Allis -
Now it seems many excavator mfg have also merged or quit
One can look at CASE also and their changes on splitting farm from construction , or from New Holland / Ford going to Fiat with Case separate now but part of the Fiat New Holland umbrella of company ties .
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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DMiller
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
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Posted: 11 Jul 2021 at 3:56am |
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Heavy trucks are and have been as bad.
GMC to White to Volvo became V,W,GMC now just Volvo and not very good but cheap, Benz just released Freightliner back on their own when originally was a White brand and split out on its own. PACCAR owns Peterbilt, Kenworth, Western Star, these flip flop as to owned or serviced or on their own making warranties sketchy at times.
GM is back to making their own Class Six and smaller, IH was buying Dodge chassis rebranding for smaller classes now have teamed with GM. Ford sold out fo Sterling and that flopped then have resumed the up to Class Six series. All seem a crap shoot.
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DougG
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Posted: 11 Jul 2021 at 6:34am |
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That's no kidding
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Ray54
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Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Location: Paso Robles, Ca
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Posted: 11 Jul 2021 at 4:27pm |
I don't see much difference between IH and AC. Both had some mistakes before the bad times. I have never read about AC with as much detail as IH with book about the down fall and miss management(Corporate Tragedy) . AC got burned in a government research project, so that may not out right mismanagement. But a hit to the bank account none the less that selling construction and then farm equipment did not keep much else alive for long.
By selling everything else IH kept the truck part of company alive until this year. With no in house engines that would last, and meet air standards they bailed and sold to VW.
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DMiller
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Posted: 11 Jul 2021 at 5:27pm |
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Back years ago as Case/NH gained IH Ag IHC trucks changed for a time to Navistar, name change did not help and the engine issues plagued them terribly tiers 2-4 on emissions, then it reverted back to International.
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Red Bank
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Posted: 11 Jul 2021 at 6:56pm |
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I think Western Star is owned by Daimler and tied to freightliner
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Ray54
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Posted: 12 Jul 2021 at 12:06pm |
 DMiller wrote:
Back years ago as Case/NH gained IH Ag IHC trucks changed for a time to Navistar, name change did not help and the engine issues plagued them terribly tiers 2-4 on emissions, then it reverted back to International. |
As I understand it the IH name went with the ag product line. But the truck company Navistar could use it for a time. There only success was the diesel engines they sold Ford until those needed to be cleaned up for government reasons.
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FREEDGUY
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Posted: 13 Jul 2021 at 8:13pm |
Ray54 wrote:
DMiller wrote:
Back years ago as Case/NH gained IH Ag IHC trucks changed for a time to Navistar, name change did not help and the engine issues plagued them terribly tiers 2-4 on emissions, then it reverted back to International. |
As I understand it the IH name went with the ag product line. But the truck company Navistar could use it for a time. There only success was the diesel engines they sold Ford until those needed to be cleaned up for government reasons. |
This might explain the "IH Engine" decal on the fender of a Ford F250 I saw on an interstate this past weekend  .
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DMiller
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Posted: 14 Jul 2021 at 6:57am |
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Actually Navistar is still used as in Navistar International, dropped the Harvester name. Are having issues selling machines these days, equated close to Fords demise take over as Sterling, hard to find any parts for them these days as to cab or chassis. Navistar is still being bought by City and State Highway departments sadly is as Allis was bought up as cheap just before the FA Changeover and ending closure.
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Ed (Ont)
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Joined: 08 Nov 2009
Location: New Lowell, Ont
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Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 8:38pm |
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I still work part time at international dealership. Stuff is selling as fast as we can get it in. Great product again. We did have some bad engines around 2010. All that is changed now. Back with Cummins and also have a great in house engine. No complaints yet on it. Lots of power, good engine brake and better on fuel than the X15 Cummins. We sell to municipalities as well but that is a small part of the equation.
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Calvin Schmidt
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Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 8:51pm |
Volkswagen just bought the remaining shares of International trucks. The umbrella name it Tatxxxxx something
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Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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Ed (Ont)
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Posted: 19 Jul 2021 at 8:13am |
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Yes that’s correct Calvin. Even tho I’m not keen on foreign ownership it has been a good thing so far. Without that I think another good name would have disappeared. Times are changing for sure. I would recommend these new trucks to anyone - both medium and heavy duty. Would not have said that 10 years ago.
Edited by Ed (Ont) - 19 Jul 2021 at 9:46am
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