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hercules motor info needed

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Randy(Mo) View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 3:46pm
Working on a Hercules motor 404ci, inline 6, made in the 1940 era. Can anybody help me with the firing order? Trying to fix someone elses screwup, Thank You
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 3:54pm
1-5-3-6-2-4 is the only firing order I know of for any 6 cylinder in-line engine.
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Randy(Mo) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Randy(Mo) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 3:56pm
Thank You
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steelwheelAcjim View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steelwheelAcjim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 7:01pm
Agree with DrAllis. Also check the top of the head to see if they didn't cast the firing order on there somewhere.
Pre-WW2 A-C tractors on steel wheels...because I'm too cheap to buy tires!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 10:14pm
My Hercules JXLD is 1-5-3-6-2-4 as well, but beware- if it's a special application (like... marine propulsion) that's set up for reverse rotation (ccw prop rotation) or a front end (rather than flywheel side) drive, you may have to consider #1 being the opposite end of the head.  IF it came out of a Chris Craft, or had a Graymarine badge, check it carefully. 

One way to be absolutely positive, is to remove each spark plug, place a finger over the #1 cylinder, and rotate crank 'till you get pressure.  Then thread the plug in halfway (so you can hear it hiss while you crank) and put a finger over the next (suspected) cylinder... it should follow 1/3 of a crank rotation from the #1 plug's hiss.  Keep going 'till you've identified all.
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote troym Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2018 at 7:24am
The iveco cursor engines in the stiegers are different dont ask me why but i was trained for years that the six cylinder inline firing order was 1 5 3 6 2 4 , now fiat went and messed with that. there cursor order is 1 4 2 6 3 5. and also they number from back to front which messed me up when doing the timing on it. it was a costly error from assumption. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2018 at 7:39am
Read that FIAT firing order backward starting from one, Is still 153624, just written backward as they numbered backward, stupid Italians.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chaskaduo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2018 at 8:22am
Fuggedaboutit

Edited by chaskaduo - 13 Oct 2018 at 8:24am
1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2018 at 8:47am
Originally posted by troym troym wrote:

The iveco cursor engines in the stiegers are different dont ask me why but i was trained for years that the six cylinder inline firing order was 1 5 3 6 2 4 , now fiat went and messed with that. there cursor order is 1 4 2 6 3 5. and also they number from back to front which messed me up when doing the timing on it. it was a costly error from assumption. 


This is concordant to my note about the marine and front-drive variations.  The firing order is reversed in one of two predominant circumstances-  1) the crankshaft rotation was reversed (different camshaft, different oil pump, different starter, different alternator fan and sometimes water pumps) OR, the engine is driven off the front nose, rather than flywheel.

In marine applications, engine rotation is oftentimes reversed so that twin engine applications have counter-rotating propellers- better propulsion efficiency and handling, because a propeller's rotation will tend to 'walk' the transom of the boat to one side.  At idle, I use prop rotation to move the rear of the boat towards, or away from a mooring (most experienced skippers do).

Front drive applications, also oftentimes marine, have the engine sitting in the hull with flywheel facing forward, because the inboard propeller driveshaft comes into the hull form the rear, at an angle.  IF the engine was flywheel-end driven, the elevation of the engine has to be very high, first for the flywheel to clear the stringers and bottom of the bilge (hull interior), and second, the front has to be very high to yield the propshaft's downward angle (no U-joints used on inboard drives!).  By placing the engine in with flywheel forward, the nose of the engine can be tilted downward, producing a better angle, and lower center of gravity of the engine.

Aside note, is that the front of the engine being low means oil wants to flow towards the nose... so the bottom of the  oilpan, rather than having a deep sump at the back, is instead flat, and oil tends to run towards the (lower) front, where the pump pickup has been relocated.  The intake manifold is also special (aside from the fact that it's often integrated into the exhaust manifold), the carbeurator flanges are 'leaned' to keep the carbeurators in a vertical-ish plane when sitting in-hull... 

SO... if you're looking at an engine that has a transmission mounted to the nose, the carbs are tilted, and the firing order is backwards... yeah, it's marine.

As for the Steiger... if they had need to change the rotation, then the firing order WOULD be different.  IF for some reason, the engineers thought it necessary to define the firing order based on how the engine was viewed in-situ, then call it a 'Fiatism'... but if it's a Hercules, they very well may have put a reverse-rotation camshaft in the engine, as it WAS a standard design option for their production engines.

On Kohler generators using Kohler-made four cylinder engines, Kohler usually identified firing order with #1 being closest to the GENERATOR end, not the radiator end.  It's just how they did it. Wink
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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