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kinghunter 
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 Topic: Hd6 help
Posted: 07 Feb 2022 at 4:45pm |
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So here’s the story. Parked dozer 3 months ago. Went back to start it nothing. Tank was still full fuel. Changed filters filled with fuel to pump tried again nothing. Took injector line loose at top of pump to check for fuel and I have nothing coming out of top of pump. Pulled shut off cover off side of pump to check for movement. It moves ok. So took top off back of pump and got shut off lever moving freely. Checked injector line at top of pump head still no diesel. Am I S.O.L? Or am I missing something. Runs perfect on starting fluid.
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DiyDave
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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Posted: 07 Feb 2022 at 6:02pm |
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Ice in the lines?
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Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need!
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Codger
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Posted: 07 Feb 2022 at 6:35pm |
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Pull your primary fuel filter and check for gelling or icing as suggested. Been cold as of late and you may not have a winter blended fuel in the machine to cope with the colder weather.
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kinghunter
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Posted: 07 Feb 2022 at 6:43pm |
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Sorry didn’t add that to post. Have no ice or gell. Excellent flow from tank. No restrictions on return line.
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Codger
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Posted: 07 Feb 2022 at 6:53pm |
No worries. First thing to check off. Some pumps have a minute screen on the inlet fitting to the pump. Might get a look at this and blow through it backwards.
Guess I should ask what injection pump you have?
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kinghunter
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Posted: 07 Feb 2022 at 7:08pm |
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Psb pump is what I believe they call it.
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Codger
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Posted: 07 Feb 2022 at 8:01pm |
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Thought I may have something on it but do not. Do you have a hand primer? If so does it build pressure. This biodiesel can cause the check valves to stick and if they do, the primer won't pull fuel.
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CAL(KS)
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: Chapman, KS
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Posted: 08 Feb 2022 at 7:05am |
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remove pressure line from transfer pump to main injection pump and check there. I had that line collapse inside and would not allow fuel to flow but line looked fine on outside. if you have fuel there then perhaps the head is toast on the PSB. also verify the return isnt blocked
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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kinghunter
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Posted: 08 Feb 2022 at 2:30pm |
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Is there a pressure bypass on these? And has anyone converted them to the pump on the 7000 model. I took two lines off top of pump head. Nothing coming out of top of pump head. Any other ideas? Thanks everyone
Edited by kinghunter - 08 Feb 2022 at 2:47pm
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CAL(KS)
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Posted: 08 Feb 2022 at 3:33pm |
i dont know what difference there is between 6 and 7 thousand engines besides turbo. IIRC the ole lanova head 344s use different gearing for the pumps so wouldnt work to upgrage to 7k pump without major work. you already have a turbo engine with direct injection right? the 7k? maby im thinking of the guy who has water in oil issue HD6 dozer with 7k engine maby the head siezed 
Edited by CAL(KS) - 08 Feb 2022 at 3:35pm
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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kinghunter
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Posted: 08 Feb 2022 at 5:20pm |
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No mines the old Lenova engine. 344 first series. I’ve been messing with it most of day. I’m at conclusion shaft must twisted off. Sucks cause motor don’t have 200 hours on complete rebuild. Im going read and try figure out how to pull pump head and see if shaft is broke. Would like to leave governor assembly on dozer. And just pull head if possible.
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Ian Beale
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Posted: 08 Feb 2022 at 8:32pm |
I've had a bit to do with PSB 6 pumps on an AC Forty Five grader which is the Lanova engine with belt drive supercharger.
The early ones had a pressure control valve on the fuel return. the later ones a restricter elbow which feeds into the injector spill return line.
There is a speed difference between PSB and Roosa pumps - IIRC the PSB is driven at crank speed, not cam speed.
Before you take the head off. If you remove the "timing window" which is the fitting below the head where the shut-off rod connects you can see the gearing at the bottom of the head. Check to see if that is turning.
You can take the head off with the pump in situ. There will likely be a hex stud on the rear of the head which is part of the oil feed to the head. It has a square section O-ring on the inner end which has to come out for the head to come off and it may stick in there. Treat carefully as it was "unobtanium" and probably still is. As are heads.
It would be a big help if you have a manual for instructions on timing the head.
As Cal says I'd first make sure that fuel is getting to the pump. It doesn't run too well through the fuel transfer pump without using the starter to turn the engine.
Best of luck.
Edited by Ian Beale - 08 Feb 2022 at 8:42pm
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kinghunter
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Posted: 08 Feb 2022 at 9:40pm |
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I have excellent fuel to the pump head. Lift pump pushes fuel through both filters to pump head good.
I took shut off rod cover off that’s right below head and had my son turn engine over and you can see gear in there turning.
Took return line off and blowed through return line to tank it’s clear.
Took cover off governor and made sure everything was free and loose. This is cover with 4 bolts at back of drive.
Im getting no fuel out of pump head to injectors.
Im not real familiar with these psb4a-100eh pumps.
I’m getting no fuel through pump head to return either. Service manual is ordered. I don’t want to pull pump head till it gets here. Is there a way I can verify plunger isn’t broke with out pulling head? Am I missing something? Thank you all I appreciate it. Thing ran like a top few months ago. Now nothing.
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Ian Beale
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Posted: 09 Feb 2022 at 12:01am |
Hmmm!
Did you leave the fuel shut-off pulled out once it stopped or did you push it back in?
If it was left pulled out just maybe the fuel spill sleeve on the head is stuck open and the plunger can't make pressure. So rattle the governor control rod that hooks to the arm in behind that timing window and see what happens.
We had problems there - when first started it would idle down and stall when you tried to accelerate. Diesel mech son took most of a day to find that there was a small burr on the shaft there that was catching when primary fuel pressure was on the sleeve end of the shaft.
It has been a while but I think you can undo the nut in the centre of the head and under it is a valve and maybe spring. Then you can get a rod down on the plunger. That is all IIRC. I used to have a link to an article on PSB pumps but it seems to have gone dead.
OK - got it via the Wayback machine so have a look at how a head works Pages 23-24
Edited by Ian Beale - 09 Feb 2022 at 12:06am
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kinghunter
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Posted: 09 Feb 2022 at 9:45am |
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Is there a way to move that sleeve you speak of through timing window? Kill rod was pulled out some when I climbed on dozer but didn’t think it was enough to matter. Thanks for web page. I’m trying to decipher it all.
So if I understand this the metering valve on these types is a sleeve? How do I free of the sleeve without completely disassembling the entire thing? I think my sleeve is stuck in off position.
Edited by kinghunter - 09 Feb 2022 at 9:52am
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Ian Beale
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Posted: 09 Feb 2022 at 5:27pm |
Make sure that the throttle is at idle so the governor spring isn't loaded. Then try moving the lever on that spill control shaft and see if it is stuck.
If it is and you can't move it via the little outer control lever -
A bit IIRC from here. The outer lever on that shaft is held on with a nut so undo that and get the lever off to release the governor rod. Careful not to drop anything here. - maybe wad up the area below just in case. I don't remember if you need to put a light wire on the governor rod in case it goes back in the housing. Then the block that carries that control shaft is held in with a couple of bolts - might be safety wired. Then you can get the block out and get a look at the underside of the head and the spill valve and apply your favourite unsticker.
I forgot to mention that you'll have to do this to get the head out - I did say I haven't been in here for a while - about 10 years IIRC.
Edited by Ian Beale - 09 Feb 2022 at 5:32pm
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kinghunter
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Posted: 09 Feb 2022 at 7:04pm |
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Thanks. I’ll try that next. Lever on side moves freely one sec then it will hang up and be real tough to move then it gets real free again. It has two screws and a bolt behind the screws. It’s getting dark here so will take it off tomorrow. I had it moving real good then went to hook up governor rod to it and it got real tight again. Something is hanging up for sure.
Edited by kinghunter - 09 Feb 2022 at 7:59pm
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Ian Beale
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Posted: 10 Feb 2022 at 12:23am |
I just did a refresher course and took the cover off our spare pump. You shouldn't have to put a wire on the governor rod. And what you are calling a bolt ought to be the control shaft. You'll have to back off or take that nut right off to release the governor rod from the front plate. There is a lock washer under the nut. And (IIRC) I think you might need to juggle the control shaft a bit to get it out.
How I got to get into this area of a PSB pump - we got an unused short motor at a major dealer clearing sale, which had a "reconditioned" pump. Unused because they never got 2 good heads to put on it - seems Lanova ones were troublesome. Not sure if that warning applies to HD 6's. We had heads and enough tested injectors to work so got brave on an engine stand with a gallon can fuel tank. And it ran. But the next morning the rest of the fuel was in the sump. So the learning curve started and people here contributed.
The well inside there below the head is for the low pressure fuel and there are 2 O-rings that seal the head. Eventually found that one of them wasn't there. It has worked since.
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kinghunter
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Posted: 15 Feb 2022 at 6:42pm |
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Update. Got it started. But now no throttle response. Starts up about 1/3 throttle and stays there no matter where throttle lever is. Any ideas?
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Ian Beale
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Posted: 16 Feb 2022 at 1:46am |
Congratulations!
Does the spill valve control work absolutely smoothly from the crank for the governor rod?
Going on our experience the governor can't put a lot of force on that crank, so I'd reckon you still have a "something " in that section. And ours didn't start to lock till there was primary pressure.
More hunting - but at least not for a head.
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kinghunter
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Posted: 16 Feb 2022 at 10:24am |
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Ya going waite till after this blizzard coming to Missouri to get back into it. Doing some more reading in book
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Ian Beale
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Posted: 16 Feb 2022 at 3:48pm |
Good luck. I didn't find a book that had much on that section.
If the head number ends with "R" it was reconditioned - an option now also in the past.
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kinghunter
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Posted: 21 Feb 2022 at 3:04pm |
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Messed with it some more today. Plunger is good not broke. Pulled control lever out it looks good and is free. Got diesel everywhere but out the injector lines. Ole thing did start once last week but died after ten minutes and acts same as before. Just like pump is in shut off mode or bypass. Not getting fuel to injector side or building pump pressure.
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Ian Beale
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Posted: 22 Feb 2022 at 6:29pm |
While you had that control assy out did you check the fuel control spill sleeve for free movement?
And similarly with it in place but with the governor rod not connected?
I thought an injection pump bloke might have chimed in by now - my experience doesn't really cover this
Have you tried any other sites?
There are injection pump blokes that chime in at Red Power so might be worth putting this in "General Chat" - you'll have to join but no cost if you're not a member. IH did use some Ambac rotary pumps.
And IIRC there was also at least one injection bloke that chimed in at Yesterday's Tractors
Edited by Ian Beale - 22 Feb 2022 at 6:54pm
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kinghunter
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Posted: 22 Feb 2022 at 8:35pm |
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Nope. Thanks for your help. I appreciate it. But I’m moving on. Going repower it with a Detroit or a 4bt cummins. Or deutz. See what I find around 80 hp range
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Ray54
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Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 11:43am |
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Ed (injpumpEd) is a AC guy and on this board as well as Red Power. He just dose not check in on the construction page often. So post in the farm equipment part of the board, or even private message him.
Edited by Ray54 - 23 Feb 2022 at 11:46am
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 1:50pm |
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There's nothing available for used or new heads for these pumps if it's snapped. Sadly continuing to try and force it to run when it obviously doesn't want to just makes a bigger mess of the pump lol!
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Ages Cat
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Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 8:07pm |
I have had this happen several times to our HD6E. Both situations have occured in which the engine would not start and after it started on another occasion, no throttle control. It has occured after it has sat over the winter. I will have to look at the pump and identify which cover we removed, however the problem is in the fuel shutoff. It developed after we started with the bio-diesel. We have since discontinued using it (gone to #1 fuel) and the tractor starts and runs fine. Long story short- the fuel gums up the fuel shutoff mechanism in the pump.
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Curt Anderson
HD3, HD5B, HD6AG,HD6B dozer, I-400,615, 616,620,720,ACP25 lift truck, 1956 D Grader, AC 540 loader, AC #84 plow, Simplicity tractors, Agco MT225, Agco 2025,
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kinghunter
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Posted: 26 Feb 2022 at 7:03pm |
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I’ve freed up fuel shut off. Just think pump finally said no more. Currently looking for a 7000 series turbo motor for it now with direct injection
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