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hd6 broke :(

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kinghunter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kinghunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: hd6 broke :(
    Posted: 23 Mar 2013 at 3:32pm
guys i had finally got the hd6 running good and was pushing brush when i heard a pop in the rearend now the right rear when looking from front of dozer wont drive itself all i can do is a left circle. I knoticed the sprocket on that side tilts inwards when i try to go farward and tilts outwards when i try to reverse anyone got any ideas of what was the weak point or what would cause that sprocket to lean in and out and not spin with the tractor. i'm just guessing here but if i broke the axle is it a difficult change, as in do i have to drop the track and the outside rail and pull sprocket or can i just take the bolts off the outside and pull the axle? any help is appreciated cause now i'm at a loss.

Thanks 

David Fletcher
Fletcher's Logging
Rich Hill MO
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HD6 Merv View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6 Merv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2013 at 6:28pm
sounds like live axle is broken; or bearings have collapsed. Either way its tracks off, trackframes off sprocket off etc. First thing would be to drop oil out of it. then final drive bottom cover. Should see all the sadness then.
tits tyres and tracks

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2013 at 10:51am
sprocket is between 2 sets of bearings of the 3 used to support the rear axle and drive gear. Could be worn out splines and sprocket center or bearings or broken axle. 

Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dozer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2013 at 4:33pm

go back 3 pages to a posting "HD5 Restoration Has Begun" 11 February, 2013 by AC Mel The final drive of the HD5 & HD6 are the same. The posting shows the rear axle.
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kinghunter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kinghunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2013 at 8:35pm
k guys thanks for your help as i said before this sight is great, me and dad are going to pull it to the house this weekend with the 190 and drop the tracks off. got a question to remove the tracks should be look for a master link in them was reading the book and not for sure how they remove are they like the newer dozers where you remove a pad and the pin removes?. and where hoping its just a bearing thats what its acting like cause sometimes it grabs and wants to go. i will post pictures and we should know this weekend. again any advice helps us out thank you all.
 
David
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2013 at 1:35am
to remove track , the master pin needs to be driven out. track pad stays attached while pounding it out.
 a punch mark on master pin identifies it. a punch with a handle attached and a BFH Sledge is used to move pin. you might be able to remove the truck frame without splitting depending on how well adjuster can be slackened.
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dozer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2013 at 7:25am
The master pin is usually longer than the other pins. I paint the master link with fluoresent pink paint. You need to back up the master link when using the bfh. Position the link on the sprocket or front idler or have a helper hold a bucking weight on the back side of the link. If this is not done much of the force of the bfh moves the track, not the pin. Some people have been sucessful using a ball joint tool or other "C" frame presses. I have a home made portable hydraulic press that clamps on the link.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote michale34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2013 at 10:06am
I use a railroad spike hammer and a sledge to drive the pins out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2013 at 3:51pm
One person method I use a piece of pipe wedged against other track, then welded a guide onto track pad to hold my punch straight onto pin , then swing away . 
 Do not loose the track pin spacer that are on each side of master link (cup shaped washers ) Sometimes some heat applied to each link - inside and outside will also help. 
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kinghunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2013 at 4:45pm
alright thanks guys ill have it up this weekend and the sledge will get to work again, ill let you all know what we find, 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dadsdozerhd5b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2013 at 6:29pm
the last time i separated my track, i moved the master pin to the rear of the dozer about 10 o'clock if you are looking at the sprocket and cut a piece of pipe just larger than the od of the pin and long enough to wedge between the track and the rear housing so all the force from the bfh was transmitted to the pin and not bouncing the track. i also welded an old track bushing to the pad and put my punch in it as a guide and swung away. i did not have a helper so the bushing held the pin perfectly in the right place. there are pics of my track removal on an older post with all there pics but i do not remember what i called it. i had the track, truck frame, sprocket and axle out in about 3 1/2 hrs by myself. it has taken me 4 months to get it back together as i cannot seem to find 4 hrs in a row to get it back together. :) good luck.
HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mactractor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2013 at 3:47am
Clever methods of pin driving Coke and Dadsdozer. The BFH doesnt seem as easy to swing as it useta
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wfmurray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2013 at 12:08pm
Neighbor had HD6 and broke axle . I welded it back with 7018 rod .It lasted untill he scraped out tractor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kinghunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2013 at 8:49pm
well guys we got it to the house today was a muddy pull and one creek crossing but we made it. it  appears to be something broken. the  sprocket is layed over against housing. going to tear it appart next few days then will know for sure. thanks again for the ideas you guys have gave me we will take all in consideration.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kinghunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 10:03pm
finally got it apart today guys bad new broke axle just like the one i seen in the restoration pictures. well question i have is does anyone have the bearing numbers and seal numbers i can get. and where would i find an axle for a hd6 dozer my sprocket is in great shape just need axle and if price is right i might buy a complete ready to bolt in unit from someone with new bearings and seals if someone might have something in that line. any help is appreciated. thanks guys.

David 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dozer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2013 at 6:15am
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALLIS-CHALMERS-AC-HD-6-FINAL-DRIVE-AXLE-BULL-GEAR-PARTS-SHAFT-HD6-HD5-BULLGEAR-5-/300666861544?pt=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item46012437e8#ht_967wt_679

Go to eBay Search Allis Chalmers HD6
It is not often that the parts you need are on eBay. Good luck
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2013 at 10:09am
David, whats the serial number of the tractor?. There's a serial number break that would indicate a 6 spline sprocket shaft (early style) or a 20 spline shaft (later). Or which one of those shafts you have would identify which bearings you need also.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dozer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2013 at 6:42pm
Other than the axle has to match the sprocket spline I don't think the the machine S/N is an issue. The 20 spline axle is a service replacement for the 6 spline axle. The bearings are the same the outer boot is different. The change was at S/N 8906 A low S/N machine can have a late S/N axle and sprocket.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mactractor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2013 at 4:05am
Right on the mark there Dozer, I`ve had tractors with one of each spline. As you say, bearings are the same
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2013 at 11:50am
Dozer, so my question would be, should any tractor above ser.# 8906 have a 20 spline shaft? We're expecting to need one for a late model 6EP. Our options for a donor tractor are, HD6B/15232  or  HD6E 12109
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gemdozer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2013 at 12:33pm
I am still have a 20 spline sprocket shaft
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dozer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2013 at 4:49pm
An HD6 above S/N 8906 was originaly equiped with a 20 spline sprocket. That does not mean that at some time a sprocket and axle from an older machine was used as a replacement. That is the trouble with interchangable parts. The outer boot seal and the sprocket nut on the 20 tooth spline machines are larger. The sprocket nut (the one that should be torqued to 2,200 ft. #) should be 4.0" for the 20 tooth sprocket or 3.75 for the 6 spline sprocket. This is what they should be. Remember that the nut has taken a beating over the years. I use a ten foot pipe on my wrench.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2013 at 7:05pm
I have one axle from a HD5 with the big splines setting on shelf - found it about a week or so back after looking for a year or so of where i put it . Moved 3 engines and somehow it was hidden behind them. 

Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kinghunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2013 at 9:44pm
mine is the 6 spline sprocket if that helps on bearings and seal numbers anyone may have to help me with. or a axle. coke i sent you a private mail, and i believe my dad said the dozer was a early model. the two outside bearings probably could be used again but the inside one in middle of shaft where it broke well its had a better life lol. like i said any help is appreciated. thanks guys.

Edited by kinghunter - 09 Apr 2013 at 9:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6 Merv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2013 at 1:49am
Am pretty sure 20 spline sprocket came in the same time as the change from raybestos to sintered bronze steering clutch plates. this was around sn 14000, just after the introduction of the 6000 motor. Have a early parts book for HD6B/E 13322 up and it only shows 6 spline shaft, raybestos plates and only a dry master clutch. Any wet backend HD6 has the 20 spline sprocket shaft.
tits tyres and tracks

they all cost you money
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mactractor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2013 at 1:55am
Are the steel sealing rings damaged or badly worn? If not, resurface them and use again. the bellows need to be replaced only if the springs loose tension or are damaged. Replace rubber boots when they dont look healthy. I`ve seen guys replace all with new when most of the parts were ok (got some of thier thrown out seals in my tractors). Complete new seal kits are not only very costly, but are getting hard to find
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2013 at 8:14pm
Here are a couple of the pictures of the unit I have on shelf - it does have a mar in the outer bearing race where someone took old bearing off with a torch but should be serviceable . Large spline and the inner bearing and race are good units. Weighs about 70 lb. I guess



Edited by Coke-in-MN - 10 Apr 2013 at 9:48pm
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2013 at 3:17pm
What is the cheapest way to ship this axle ? Not that big but weight makes it around 60 to 70 pounds.
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2013 at 6:21pm
Originally posted by Coke-in-MN Coke-in-MN wrote:

What is the cheapest way to ship this axle ? Not that big but weight makes it around 60 to 70 pounds.

I'd guess Fedex, if you have a terminal near you.  I'd build a good wooden box, or just bubble wrap it, and duct tape it all over.  I shipped a pair of bail ramps to a fellow in western PA, from MD, cost like $25.00, IIRR, about 100 lbs, again IIRR.  But then again the Fedex terminal is like 3-1/2 miles from me, so your mileage may vary!
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