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HD-41

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ACinSC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ACinSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: HD-41
    Posted: 26 Jul 2023 at 8:42pm
Just read an interesting article about one that was found here in SC
Would post the link if I could. Anyone else seen it? What a monster !
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2023 at 9:40pm
there has been a couple stories on that restoration... Yes... its a BRUTE ..


Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeM(GA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2023 at 9:46pm
I saw it down in White Plains before it moved, that is one huge piece of iron!
Allis Express North Georgia
41 WC,48 UC Cane,7-G's,
Ford 345C TLB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2023 at 7:03am
Someplace in my stash of Polaroid photos from 1976 I have a photo of myself standing between an HD-41B, and an FD-30 both new at the time at the plant in Springfield. Neither had a push blade installed, but they were huge tractors in that timeframe. 
A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ACinSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2023 at 7:42am
That's the article I read Steve. Thanks for posting
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2023 at 8:00am
21C was bigger than a D8 and the 31 was bigger than a D9... When the  HD 41 came out it was the largest dozer on earth....... 80 tons, 1710 Cummins at 524 HP , up to a 20 ft wide blade.... YEA... it was a monster.

Sold a lot of them to the mines in Penn, Kentucky, and over seas.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kcgrain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2023 at 12:17pm
If you need a new final, powershift transmission, PM kits or bearings I have a bunch of new 41 parts
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kcgrain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2023 at 12:20pm
I was told by a CAT guy that the 16 was the same size as a 7 but would out push an 8, the 21 was the same size as a 8 but would out push a 9 and the 41 had no equal, 

Edited by Kcgrain - 27 Jul 2023 at 1:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doughd16b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2023 at 5:44pm
I HAVE 2 HD16s and they push very well but they won't push as much as a D8
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2023 at 9:07pm
Originally posted by Doughd16b Doughd16b wrote:

I HAVE 2 HD16s and they push very well but they won't push as much as a D8


I've always heard that also about the HD-16, and the HD-21 series tractors, but a late model Caterpillar D8 series is a lot different than one produced in the 1970's when the HD-16, or HD-21 was common. I wouldn't think there would be much of a comparison today.
A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2023 at 10:04pm
D8 GREW over the years... Started out the size of a Allis 16 and ended up the size of a Allis 21C.... if the two machines had the same WEIGHT and HP... they were approx equaal.

  • 1940s: D8 2U Series (148 hp [110 kW]) introduced
  • 1950: D8 new front-rounded grill that would last until D8K was replaced by D8L in 1982.
  • 1955: 1H Series D8 ends production; 191 hp (142 kW) D8E and D8D introduced with new 1,246-cubic-inch (20,420 cc) displacement (CID) D342 diesel engine. D8D had a torque converter and D8E had a direct drive transmission.
  • 1956: D8D replaced by D8G.
  • 1956: D8E replaced by D8F.
  • 1958: 235 hp (175 kW) D8H introduced.
  • 1965: Power increased to 270 hp (200 kW)
  • 1970: D8 46a 48a power increased 280 hp (210 kW)
  • 1974: 300 hp (220 kW) D8K replaced the D8H.
  • 1982: 335 hp (250 kW) D8L replaced D8K. The D8L was the first D8 with the elevated drive sprocket undercarriage.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2023 at 5:05am
Something I've always found ironic is that for the most part basic hand tools are needed to work on A-C tractors where with Caterpillar, a special this, or that is needed.

Another little story I remember and kinda find humor in:

Back in 1976 there was a new trailer park being developed on the NW side of Springfield in former rolling ground. There was quite a bit of ground to shape and move as the park was fairly narrow but deep and a large portion needed leveled out of a hillside. I can't remember the excavating contractor that did the work, but there were two fairly new looking D8 Caterpillar tractors, and a single HD-16. IIRC one, or both of those Caterpillar machines was/were being worked on each day and an operator that would be seen operating a D8 early in the day, would be seen later that same day on the HD-16 while the Cat was being worked on. Coincidence? Probably, but this went on quite a while and I don't know exactly what was happening, but I never seen the HD-16 having a wrench put to it while it was there.
A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2023 at 11:50am
Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

D8 GREW over the years... Started out the size of a Allis 16 and ended up the size of a Allis 21C.... if the two machines had the same WEIGHT and HP... they were approx equaal.

  • 1940s: D8 2U Series (148 hp [110 kW]) introduced
  • 1950: D8 new front-rounded grill that would last until D8K was replaced by D8L in 1982.
  • 1955: 1H Series D8 ends production; 191 hp (142 kW) D8E and D8D introduced with new 1,246-cubic-inch (20,420 cc) displacement (CID) D342 diesel engine. D8D had a torque converter and D8E had a direct drive transmission.
  • 1956: D8D replaced by D8G.
  • 1956: D8E replaced by D8F.
  • 1958: 235 hp (175 kW) D8H introduced.
  • 1965: Power increased to 270 hp (200 kW)
  • 1970: D8 46a 48a power increased 280 hp (210 kW)
  • 1974: 300 hp (220 kW) D8K replaced the D8H.
  • 1982: 335 hp (250 kW) D8L replaced D8K. The D8L was the first D8 with the elevated drive sprocket undercarriage.
I don't know where this information came from but be careful as right off the top of my head I can assure you the earliest D8 was 1H serial number and then a D8 r during WW2. Followed by 2u series. So there could be other errs in it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2023 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by Codger Codger wrote:

Something I've always found ironic is that for the most part basic hand tools are needed to work on A-C tractors where with Caterpillar, a special this, or that is needed.


Yes I know about that in convenance. A 2 edged sword about that convenance though. Those press fit shafts with tapered splines only come apart with presses and pullers, but the spline lasts 100's of times longer than square cut splines that you can take apart without a puller. So you spend your money on tools or buying machined parts. That is why so many more Cats built in the 50's and 60's are still running. Probably more Cats than all other brands combined running from that ere. Mainly because the cuticle parts are available.

I don't want to get into the argument of which is better, because a lot is left open to your idea of better.  Big smile I have about as many AC as Cat tractors. LOL So not that I dislike a good AC.  And being a poor dumb farmer, I never got newer than 1950's crawlers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2023 at 12:49pm
Ray, the D8 tractors started in the 1930s as you said... I just included the porting from  WW2 to present to show that  in 1945 the tractor had about 150 HP and today it is over 300 HP.... still called a D8. .......... Allis did the same thing with a HD16 all the way to the 16B...... and the HD21 up thru the 21C... more HP and weight.. so when your comparing two tractors, you have to use the HP and WEIGHT and not the Model number... was my point.

Edited by steve(ill) - 28 Jul 2023 at 12:49pm
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2023 at 7:25am
Originally posted by Ray54 Ray54 wrote:

Originally posted by Codger Codger wrote:

Something I've always found ironic is that for the most part basic hand tools are needed to work on A-C tractors where with Caterpillar, a special this, or that is needed.


Yes I know about that in convenance. A 2 edged sword about that convenance though. Those press fit shafts with tapered splines only come apart with presses and pullers, but the spline lasts 100's of times longer than square cut splines that you can take apart without a puller. So you spend your money on tools or buying machined parts. That is why so many more Cats built in the 50's and 60's are still running. Probably more Cats than all other brands combined running from that ere. Mainly because the cuticle parts are available.

I don't want to get into the argument of which is better, because a lot is left open to your idea of better.  Big smile I have about as many AC as Cat tractors. LOL So not that I dislike a good AC.  And being a poor dumb farmer, I never got newer than 1950's crawlers.


I only favor A-C because of my personal history with the brand and so many of my friends having family members that worked at the Springfield plant. Sure I worked there a couple of short stints in high school, but that wasn't enough to sway any kind of loyalty. However being a backyard mechanic "wannabe", I did take notice of the simple tools and setups being used to manufacture these tractors. Most of the hydraulic equipment, pushers and pullers were simply OTC tooling readily, and easily available from tool suppliers. I came to appreciate this even more years later when my wife started at Caterpillar in Peoria, IL as an accountant, (ultimately retiring there) and got to see some of the tooling costs associated with their equipment, and how specialized some of this was. Of course manufacturing is much different now than the mid 1970's, so that needs kept in perspective.

In my short stint, (grand scheme) of being a bulldozer repairman until forced out of the job through closure and elimination, most of the brand I was exposed to were I-H. I thought they built a good tractor also at the time. Pretty much anything was easy to get in those days to keep most any tractor operational with many times a two to four hour ride in a pickup truck involved for parts retrieval as somebody had what you needed. Ma Bell played a lot in those days as internet, and cell phones didn't exist, along with people knowing how to use paper catalogs as computers were not yet a part of normal operations. Parts guys actually knew what they were selling too.

So much simpler times in hindsight..... 

Can't say one brand is better than the other as they all competed for the same market segment and built machines to fit the need. I've not worked on much Caterpillar equipment myself, but do know they are the best for supported parts for older equipment. Never really much of a player for me as I'm so used to build up and repair/rebuild of existing parts, it's almost second nature to assume this is the path to take. Wink  
A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tad Wicks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2023 at 1:01pm
Somewhere I have an original sales brochure for the 41, on the front, was a picture of the 41 and the heading 545 HorsePower, they came out when I was just out of High School. There was an article in the Construction News (I think that was the name of it) about the 41 in it's early days, somebody was using one to rip up a concrete runway and how much it was saving the contractor and how effortless is was for the 41. When they were moving HWY 166 from Cuyama to Santa Maria, CA to the bottom of the canyon they were using one, I went to see it, but they had moved it out the day before.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tad Wicks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2023 at 7:57pm
correction.    I think that it was 554 HP
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