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matador 
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 Topic: Haying Tractor, Take 2
Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 1:20pm |
Last time I asked the "What tractor to get" question, it was for a main tractor. We ended up with an Allis 7040- a little rough around the edges, but a nice, nice machine that's working great! It's a little big for some things though, and we're going to be adding a second small square baler next year, so we need another tractor of some sort. And yes, if any of you have something for sale that would work, I'd love to talk about it
We're flexible- color doesn't matter, doesn't need a cab, though they are nice. We'd like a diesel engine, and a low first gear so our old baler can keep up with the big windrows if possible. That's pretty much all of our requirements
What would you guys recommend? You guys have run a heck of a lot more tractors than I'll probably ever run
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wekracer
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Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 4:08pm |
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I have a series IV D17 gas. Great tractor. I also have a 175D. I really like it too. I typically run my square baler on the 6080 with canopy. Obviously there is a difference in price but I don’t think you could go wrong with any of the 3
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darrel in ND
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Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 4:32pm |
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I wouldn't fret over finding another 7000 series, even if it is an overkill. A lot of times you can find them cheap. And you can always do big and small jobs with a big tractor, but can only do small jobs with a small tractor. Darrel
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matador
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Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 5:24pm |
The only thing I don't like about our 7040 is the cab. For a fat guy like me, it is a pain in the butt to get in the thing, and the seat is too far forwards to reach the controls for our New Holland Bale Wagon. They have a kit to move the controls in the cab, but it's $250 per control you want to move, or like $1700 to move them all. Not cheap, sadly. We've run the wagon with the neighbor's 4320 Deere before- it's easy on that tractor. You can just reach behind you and do it all from the seat.
On our 7040, you feel so high up that it's not easy to run the wagon. The 7040 feels a lot like our neighbor's bigger Case IH Mangums in size, while our White 2-105 felt like a smaller, more nimble tractor. Would something like a 7000 or 7010 feel that way, or would it feel as big as our 7040?
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 6:30pm |
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The 7000 is a updated 200 in newer sheet metal. 7010 is mostly identical to your 7040, except it has the smaller 301 not the 426.
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Michael V (NM)
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Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 7:01pm |
what little I run a NH bale wagon with the controls on the wagon,, I think an "open" station tractor is what your lookin for,, now if ya want to spend the $1700,, go for a cab tractor. do you do baling in the summer? I prefer a cab with AC,,but an open tractor with a canopy in the summer would work,, small square bales don't get really nasty/dirty like big rounds or big squares. what tractors are popular in your area?? what dealers are the most helpful/close?,, big round fellas, get them clone easy JD type steps an put them on, or build ya some steps ya like,,,yea I know bout the 7000 series,, I gotta 7060,,,kinda difficult to get in and out If ya need BIG horse,, that's ok, but I'd stay within reason on what your running, say +10-20 HP,, be more efficient,, ya don't need 180 hp to run a small square baler...
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matador
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Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 7:20pm |
We do just straw for our operation, but we sometimes are asked to put up the neghbor's hay in July. We've never had a tractor with A/C, so we're used to it. We've never had an open station either. Heck, we've only owned three tractors since we moved here in the 1990s.
We have a round baler, but haven't used it yet. The vast majority of what we do is going to be small squares. We run a New Holland 276 now, but will be getting something a bit higher capacity to keep up with the neighbor's 30 foot headers.
As for what's popular out here, it's all John Deere. One guy runs a fleet of Olivers and Whites, one guy runs Internationals, and we have our Allis and had a White before that. Other than that, almost EVERYTHING is Deere. They're the only dealer that isn't 100 miles away, but we've just gotten used to making the trip or ordering parts over the phone
The neighbor's 4320 has a Hiniker cab on it, but we've just taken the rear window out when we run it. That tractor handles it really well- easy to drive and reach the controls. I've picked up a couple loads with our 7040 and hate that tractor on the wagon. Hard to get into, but it's hard to describe- it just feels massive. Harder to see the bales, not as manuverable, and to push the controls, I have to hold a long stick in my hand reaching out the back. It just really doesn't work well at all for that. Great tillage tractor, but terrible for the wagon
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darrel in ND
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Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 8:11pm |
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With all of that being said, look for a cab-less 180, 185, 190, or 200. Darrel
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darrel in ND
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Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 8:13pm |
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Forgot to mention my favorite, the D19. I've used my D19 for all of the implements that you mentioned and liked it. However, I might get some dis-agreement on that choice. Darrel
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matador
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Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 8:32pm |
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Our bale wagon is a 1033, so one of the big ones. Would a D-19 be able to handle that? I know what we've run it with is overkill, but we've never really had a 'utility-sized' tractor. Our 2-105 was the smallest of our tractors
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Ron(AB)
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Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 8:46pm |
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The best tractor for the bale wagon is one without the cab and 2WD.
You know you're going to be jumping off and on a lot and this way you can reach the controls.
The choice here is JD (gasp!) 3140, 3150, 2950, etc.
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matador
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Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 8:53pm |
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Out here, there just aren't many tractors period. Looking at the local auction house (Musser Brothers out here), there's two Deere 3020's (One gas) and a 2440 coming up for auction and that's literally it. What I hate about buying equipment (in general) is that we always end up having to pay to get something trucked in from 3 states away. Heck, even just looking at BigIron shows more candidates for tractors than you'd see all year out here
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AC720Man
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Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 9:10pm |
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I like to see how my 190XT would do on it. Great thing about older tractors is if you are mechanically inclined you can order parts and do the repairs yourself without a dealer.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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matador
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Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 9:14pm |
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Amen to that! We never have a mechanic do anything unless we have no choice. A 190XT would have plenty of power for a balewagon, and plenty of weight to handle it. I think you'd have a hard time running a wagon though for the same reason our 7040 does- the rear mounted fuel tank moves the seat forwards, so I think you'd have a hard time reaching the controls
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shameless dude
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 12:42am |
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i have a 190XT open station, no problem reaching anything when sitting in its seat. only problem i had was getting on/off, the steps were....well not enough. i bought them steps from the guy on this forum and they made a whale of a difference. i too am an old fat dude...and now have no problem getting on/off. the seat kinda rides up and over the front of the fuel tank. my dad had a green 3020 gasser, don't waste time or money on those POS's!
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rw
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 4:43am |
My 190 xt runs the 1034 bale wagon OK and gets the job most of the time. At times I have operated the wagon from the cab of the 7060 black belly power shift. The advantages I find on the 7060 are the big engine starts the wagon rolling without as much of a grunt even when loaded. The 426 CI engine holds 1500 rpms better when loading while climbing a hill so the second table works more reliably. The foot throttle is there if needed on the 7060. Our hay bales weigh over 60 lbs and the wagon weighs about 6000 empty so a loaded wagon is about equal to the 7060 and close to double the XT. The brakes are better on the 7060. The powershift in high range gives no clutch no stop shifting from field to barn and better speed choices. Seems like 3rd High on the XT is a little slow on bales that are spaced out and 4th low is ok sometimes but the engine doesn't hold RPMs well. The thicker draw bar on the 7060 handles the load without adding additional support. A Black Belly has much better steps, the gearshift in the console and I understand a smaller steering wheel to address the entry issue compared to a maroon belly 7040 or 7060. The steps and smaller steering wheel might be worth changing over to try. I expect the 2-105 lands between the XT and 7040 as far as weight and engine size with three speeds shift on the go. I think I saw a photo on this website of a D-17 with a 1033 wagon. My 1034 wagon manual calls for a 4 plow tractor minimum.
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Tbone95
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 7:09am |
Just an interesting observation: You've run your neighbor's JD 4320, and your 7040 seems like you sit high? I have a 7045, and when it's laid up have borrowed a friend's 4320. I think THAT feels like you're way high! 
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groundhog55
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 7:15am |
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If color doesn't matter a 4020 JD with a powershift is the best you could do.
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matador
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 7:21am |
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We never had the chance to run our White on the balewagon. I’m sure it would have handled it really well though. We liked the tractor a lot, but the engine has head gasket problems which lead to oil getting in the coolant- a LOT of oil. She burns about a quart every two hours. Last year the clutch pilot bearing started squealing, so that’s going out too. Pretty much the whole tractor would need to be rebuilt. It’s a shame- I really liked it. But, the engine thing has us worried about another similar tractor.
Whites were really heavy tractors for their size. They used cast frames which ran the weight up. With the heavy weight, easy to use steps (Best steps we’ve had on any tractor), and seat at the back of the cab, I know it would have handled the wagon well.
We don’t have hills out here, but we do go down the highway with every load. I know a 4320 is total overkill for a wagon, but we’ve had no problems with it really. We just don’t want to rely on having to borrow a tractor to run the wagon.
We’d like a tractor where it can handle the wagon fine and the baler fine. With cab remotes, we can run it on our 7040, but it’s just not the right tool for the job
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matador
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 7:27am |
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For some reason, our 7040 just feels big. Bigger when turning, and harder to maneuver. The 4320 feels a lot more nimble. I don’t know why- both tractors have 38” tires (though the neighbor runs 16.9’s on it). With the 7040, it feels a lot like the neighbors Case IH 7130 in size- big.
We couldn’t care less about color. I just doubt a Deere powershift would be in our price range. From what some of those auctions bring, I’m not sure any Deere is in our price range. And no, I have ZERO interest in a gas powered Deere
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Kansas99
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 8:04am |
One thing about a 185 or 200 if you want something maneuverable I can't imagine a tractor that turns any shorter. I'm sure there are some but as short as my 4020 turns the 185 I have is even better. Shortest turning tractor I've ever ran.
Deere is a little quicker shifting forward to reverse but what your doing it going to be almost all forward.
Edited by Kansas99 - 13 Nov 2020 at 8:06am
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"Thank you for your service Joe & the Ho"-----Joseph Stalin
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matador
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 9:09am |
The 185 looks like a nice sized tractor- small, but big enough to handle the wagon just fine. Odd that the 190 got the rear fuel tank and the 185 didn't, but I'm not going to complain
How hard is it to bale or run a wagon with a Power Director? I know on something like a 185, if I push the clutch to stop, the baler or wagon will just instantly shut off. I know you can "slip" the hand clutch to stop the tractor or creep, but is that hard on the tractor, or hard to run?
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modirt
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 9:39am |
I pull my NH 315 square baler with a 90's era Ford 5610....2wd with canopy. It handles it fine, but is inferior in every way you can think of to our old 1964 JD 3020.
The reason I have a Ford is that who is available to me for parts. Dealership has 2 locations that are only 15 min away. Nearest AGCO 30 miles away.
If you want to save yourself a lot of problems, stick with a brand you can get parts for.
Tractor I use to rake and ted with is a D15.
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NDBirdman
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 9:46am |
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I happen to know there's a 190XTD in ND you could buy. Has a cab on it but would not take alot to remove it. Farmer built 3 point could easily come off making it a bare-back with 2 remotes.
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1955 WD45 S#205467, 190XT #6652 DXT
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matador
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 11:18am |
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How did he rig up the three point? Cylinders to one of the remotes? Do you know his price and anything about the tractor?
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dr p
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 6:47pm |
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Hate to sound like a heretic, but my dad ran a 1034 wagon with a John deere 3020 with a narrow front end and a power shift. It was great. Made a lot of square bales but up to the end he always made of load of boot Timothy with the rotobaler to feed fresh cows and sick cows. Cows seem to like rotobale better
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darrel in ND
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 7:08pm |
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Got to thinking about it; neighbor of ours when I grew up, had a one ninety XT. Baled more small squares and hauled em with a large bale wagon with that XT than anyone I know. He sure liked it. Must have been good. You will have the power director with an XT, thus the PTO will stop when you step on the clutch. Now, as far as I am concerned, I've run Allis's with the power director for so long running PTO equipment, that I don't even have to think about what I am doing anymore, and actually like the set up. We even got a newer challenger big round baler this season, and even my 23 year old son didn't want any other tractor hooked on to it than the XT. If you can find like a 185, XT, or 200, a hydraulic PTO clutch , and both 540 and 1000 PTO's is a big plus. Son's late model 185 has those options, plus a 3 pt hitch. Sweet tractor. And you will love the fuel economy of it. Something I did see on big iron auctions that might interest you was a 6080 allis. I know very little about them, but I have heard them praised on here quite often. This one did look a little rough, not sure. It was cab-less. darrel
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matador
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 7:24pm |
So, the 185, 190XT, and 200 all used the same setup, right?
Looks like a nice tractor, probably not used too much since it has the old style Goodyear tires on the back. Haven't seen a decent looking set of those in ages.
Going back to Dr. P's comment, what would be the equivalent of a 3020 in Allis speak? A 180??
I have no problem with a John Deere tractor, but they seem to bring such a price premium usually (Especially for a Powershift) that it's just not something I can afford now. If a syncro range 3020 came up for a good price though, I'd have no problems driving it. We're buying a tractor to help us make money, so as long as it can do that, it's a good tractor, right?
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matador
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 7:32pm |
I think I've found that 6080 you were talking about. This one, right? https://www.bigiron.com/Lots/1981Allis-Chalmers60802WDTractor-2
She looks pretty nice! What worries me is that the bid is already up to $1300. I have a feeling she's going to fetch a pretty penny. heck, there's a sweet looking 185 on BigIron, but it's already up to $6900!?
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NDBirdman
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Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 7:55pm |
 matador wrote:
How did he rig up the three point? Cylinders to one of the remotes? Do you know his price and anything about the tractor? |
Each side of the 3-point has a cylinder (2 total) connected to a T. It is ran off one of the remotes, the other remote runs the snow blower snout. It's my tractor, way bigger than I need for just a snow blower. I picked it up from a friends dad after he retired, he's kinda lost his mind and don't know much about anything anymore. I have pulled a field cultivator with it before I brought it home. The blower is an International 80, it would come as a package deal. I don't know a whole lot about it except I did a complete fluid and filter change on it and a new water pump. Cab no heat/air, lights not hooked up, yet. Send a message if your interested, I was thinking of putting it on Craig's list for $6500, don't really know what it's worth.
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1955 WD45 S#205467, 190XT #6652 DXT
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