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Hay and other feed stuffs

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Ray54 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Hay and other feed stuffs
    Posted: 05 Jun 2021 at 1:38pm
There is a question about hay cutting on tractor section and it has got into much more than cutting it. So I thought with all the discussion I would widen the subject and see what happens.

The first off topic over there was what kind of hay to feed butcher cattle. My general answer is anything that will not make them sick. But it also depends if you want grass finished or grain fed. 

Wink The short course is cattle need ruffage in there diet, they are not made to eat grain only. That is why whole corn on the cob was considered so good in the old days. With just a little reading of the old time standard "FEEDS AND FEEDING" written by Morrison you can "balance" most anything a cow will eat. So real junk hay will be Ok, IF and only IF you add what is not in the junk hay. A lot of other hay eating animals are included as well.

Wink Many reasons the hay is in the junk category. It was cut to late or it was rained on after cutting are the most likely reasons. More or less the same condition. Some or most of the nutrients that where in the plant are gone. Many of sugars and amino acids that make proteins are water soluble. So rain "wash's" some of the good stuff away. In some cases almost all of it.


So add or ask about hay.   


Edited by Ray54 - 06 Jun 2021 at 8:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allisbred Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2021 at 7:01pm
Looks pretty correct to me but you also need to add the cost inputs. What equipment you have available, climate, being able to have no waste, facility, labor to invest(home property or leased), just lots of considerations when raising hay/livestock.. That’s why it is nice to have a forum like this to share different approaches.

Edited by allisbred - 05 Jun 2021 at 7:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2021 at 8:47pm
I will follow it here wherever it goes because I love to learn, grow up on a farm but by the time I came around my parents were getting older and I feel like I kind of missed out!
I still use three Allis Chalmers to do everything from my dad's old AC B 1950, 1953 CA, 1959 d17, a AC 80t sickle mower, a old steel wheeled international harvester hay rake are my lineup. (For now because I am super small, only a few head of Hereford and 40 acres)

I'm glad that I waited on cutting our hay field this past weekend because now the weather forecast has 60% chance of rain pretty much every day this week... (That's interesting that if cut and rained on that it has a wash away effect on the nutrients)?

Edited by Hunt4Allis - 07 Jun 2021 at 5:13am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tadams(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2021 at 2:32pm
We had a rain storm go threw a noon today .44" of rain and saying might be more this evening.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote victoryallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2021 at 2:47pm
$7 corn takes away the appeal but the beef pellet program has a different approach than you. Lots of cows fed on grain and just enough hay to keep the digestive system going.
8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2021 at 5:19pm
Rain storms in forecast every day this week...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2021 at 5:36pm
Another important variable is what you have available for land. When we were farming, most of Dad's farm was flat and low. It was not drained well enough to grow alfalfa (water laid  the ground in early summer), but when everything else was burning up in a dry summer, our crops still looked good.  

Now I see a lot of farmers growing grasses and harvesting early because grasses respond better to large amounts of manure and cost inputs are considerably less than most legumes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote klinemar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2021 at 9:03pm
Cattle are great converters of feed stuffs. And you can never have enough good hay!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2021 at 7:13am
Question for the light-on-hay  heavy-on-grain guys: How many pounds per day of your grain ration does say a 900lb critter get fed?

By the sounds of things, some of you guys probably wouldn't let my beef cross your palate!  Which is odd, because we get compliments all the time.  Not just from customers who have had nothing but Walmart prior, but from the slaughterhouse, from the meat market, from people who haven't had good farm raised beef "since they were a kid".

I don't say that with any contempt or conceit or right or wrong, just find it very interesting.  Here is "our way", which I guess is totally wrong.LOL

For starters, the grain we grow/mix/feed.  Approximately 1/3 by volume oats, 2/3 shelled corn, 50 pounds of mineral blend, 50 pounds of Selenium salt, 150 pounds molasses.  This is in a ~ 2+ ton mixed batch.   We used to use ear corn, but the condition of the crib, the picker, etc. has put a stop to that. IF I have some really crappy hay, or decent wheat straw, I will put a few bales of that in and reduce the corn volume, but don't always have that on hand.  

From the time the calves are weaned, they get good hay, and are introduced to the above "grain" right away.  Just a couple handfuls twice a day and enough hay to chew on 'til their heart's content pretty much.  As time goes on, they get a little more and a little more of the grain, of course they are eating more hay too.  Never really bothered to calculate an exact ratio, but I'd say by the time they are 900+ pounds they are eating about 8 pounds of the grain per day, 4 pounds in the morning, 4 pounds at night.  Hay to munch on in between.  

I guess what constitutes "quality hay" is important here, and of course subjective.  I do plant alfalfa, but I've never planted a field of ONLY alfalfa, I always put other grass seed in with it.  Depending on the field, it might be some Timothy, Brome, Italian Rye, Tall Fescue....whatever.  And of course over the life of the field, the alfalfa diminishes.  But the calves, I try to give them the better stuff, be it younger crop, not rained on if at all possible, etc.  

I don't feed a whole lot of 2nd cutting to calves, otherwise they seem to really start projectile pooping.  

Over the years, I've fed pea/oat bales to calves/feeders/fats, I've fed corn silage if I have good supply.  If corn silage, that's once a day at night and then hay in the morning.  But no matter what of the above, always that grain.  Diet doesn't really change as they get older, just more of it.  Maybe I have a terribly unsophisticated palate, but I've never noticed a change in flavor.  

Our beef is always very tender.  I would think that may have to do with their facility.  They really don't have a lot of room.  I mean, not in an inhumane way, but these critters are in the barn for this whole process.  I've often thought about changing that....

If I increase the grain much over what I do, projectile pooping.  Give more than a few feedings of 2nd cutting per week, projectile pooping.  

Dad and I have talked all along, we could be totally wrong, but our theory was when a critter was "pushed for fat" the last couple hundred pounds, you get that layer of fat on the carcass, but it's not really all the way through so to speak.  

Had a steak birthday dinner, man were they delicious!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allisbred Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2021 at 10:01am
I would guess they are going through ~ 30 lbs per day of grain and a round bale of rough ~ 3-4 days. Go through more as closer to finish, have them on full grain from ~900lbs - ~1400lbs for 4 months or slightly over, averages ~3.5-4.+ rate of gain per day. The number has a little variance as they tend to gain more through the winter verses the summer months. We have found they do better exposed to all outside elements and are locked out of the barn(hope there are no animal activists reading), but are on concrete and get a little shade from the feeder.They are confined to very minimal movement ~2000sq ft for 20 animals. We grind our feed as mentioned before, did stop using any molasses as that seems to draw flies( only use when we hit the bottom of the crib).

Sounds like what you are doing is better than some around here. I know of a few guys that finish on pasture with little to no grain and only mineral blocks!

I was wondering more to the guys feeding corn silage, how that works out?

When purchased as feeders, ~ 400 lbs, we confine for 2 weeks away from herd, vaccinate towards the back side of the 2 weeks, start on grain about 7-10lbs per day hand fed of mostly ground barley, 12-14 buckets of raw beans and (2) bags of mineral mix added to the mix. Use our highest quality hay, unlimited round bales. Use to give treated feed when brought in, however that changed a few years ago. Now, can only purchase if there are sick animals!

Once established and settled, they get pasture, good hay, 7-10lbs per day of the same mix above until ready for finishing. ( I think this could be improved as we use to give steroids for weight gain back in the 80’s and is now frowned on).

Years ago, when we had another farm for breading, cow/calf operation, we fed silage, green chopped alfalfa daily, a little strait barley mix and full pasture.

Cattle of choice has been Angus/Hereford cross (baldies).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2021 at 10:55am
Approximately 100 pounds per month gain!  Wow!!

So at what age are they finished?


Edited by Tbone95 - 08 Jun 2021 at 10:56am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2021 at 10:57am
I feed the bred mommas corn silage.  Only once in a handful of years do I have 'enough' corn silage to feed some to the growing critters.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2021 at 11:36am
Here goes in taking this off topic.  TongueWell maybe not just hay converted to human food. That is the great thing about cattle they turn grass into steak.

I want marbling (intra muscular  fat ) in my steak, I am not fussy about how you get them fat. Wink My wife on the other hand, she has complained about most game meat as being "gamey". She was out with friend in a high dollar steak place had a (a story for another day, she doesn't buy steak in a restaurant )burger. She did not like the burger it had the same "gameyness" as venison. The place was jumping on the "grass fed" trend that is the trendy thing yet. So she says just the grass fed taste she has always called "gameyness". So as best we can there will be no grass fed beef severed in my house.

I have been a use what you got guy. Growing up this was wheat and barley growing country. Most saved seed or traded with other farmers. So you had screenings from the seed cleaning, broken and shrunk crenels, weed seeds. This is the base of my cattle fatting feed, add other things to get the ration in balance varied by cost of other feed stuffs. I don't know of anyone that has ground and mixed their own feed, even when there where dairies all from a feed mill.

Once cattle get to eating a diet high in grain we put it in a self feeder and keep hay another feeder. Let them eat as much as they want. But you need to increase the grain gradually. We have let them get to much to quick, it delayed the whole process about a month.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allisbred Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2021 at 11:59am
Originally posted by Tbone95 Tbone95 wrote:

Approximately 100 pounds per month gain!  Wow!!

So at what age are they finished?
   
I would say figure up to 2 years depending on how long it took to the 900lbs mark. When I was younger, I took late February/ March calf’s and sold the following year in the first week of August during the fair. I can think of several years where our steers were over the 1400lb max weight limit to be sold and starved them that week to make the sale. So- that makes 17 months max. My sister showed a April calf that made 1250 lbs one year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2021 at 7:34pm
I don't have cows that give the most milk, with poor feed all season I weaned steer calves at 525 lbs @ 8 months. Last year much better feed weaned and turned back on dry grass @12 months they weight 850. If you feed them for faster growth they could be finished by 18 months. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2021 at 6:31am
Originally posted by allisbred allisbred wrote:

Originally posted by Tbone95 Tbone95 wrote:

Approximately 100 pounds per month gain!  Wow!!

So at what age are they finished?
   
I would say figure up to 2 years depending on how long it took to the 900lbs mark. When I was younger, I took late February/ March calf’s and sold the following year in the first week of August during the fair. I can think of several years where our steers were over the 1400lb max weight limit to be sold and starved them that week to make the sale. So- that makes 17 months max. My sister showed a April calf that made 1250 lbs one year.
That's the difference too, . . . so even if my feed is cheaper (?), I sell my freezer beef in "batches" usually.  The first / best ones are ready at about age 2, but up to 1/3 of them take more like 28 months or so. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allisbred Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2021 at 8:01am
Originally posted by Ray54 Ray54 wrote:

I don't have cows that give the most milk, with poor feed all season I weaned steer calves at 525 lbs @ 8 months. Last year much better feed weaned and turned back on dry grass @12 months they weight 850. If you feed them for faster growth they could be finished by 18 months. 


Doesn’t sound like too poor of feed/milk to me? When are yours castrated? We try to buy 375-450 steer calf’s and I think they are 6 months weaned with rings, at least from one local farm. Auction steers, who knows, but I do see multiple ear tags from (1) farm that seem like they are really up to date. Are marked with Cow/bull, birth date/cast date/vac date!

Tbone— my father always said finish should be 18-19 months but things have changed over the years. We used to finish steers that were small framed, finished about 1200lbs, smaller sides, put fat on quicker— etc... Now, if sent to auction, they need to be over 1400 for top dollar or you take a big hit. Another variable is steers we bring in the fall and stay in the feed lot through the winter, are ready for finish lot much quicker because they are not out running weight off such as the ones we buy in the spring months and get more pasture time. I would think they could be pushed maybe even to around 16 months if fed heavy in a semi confined area from the 400-900 weight group.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2021 at 8:50am
Yeah, I'm sure I could go "faster".  Another thing.....I don't buy calves, they are born on the farm, and really, the ones that I raise to freezer beef are about the poorest of the calves rather than the best.  I sell around half of my calves as feeders, which is most of the steers born and a few heifers.  At approximately 6 months age, I average nearly around 600 pounds on those calves.  Then my replacement heifers are selected, and those are the pick of the female portion of the year's calves, and finally what is left over is what I raise to beef.  Financially, it sort of works out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2021 at 9:55am
If very small farm(40 acres) and only a couple cows what is the right( if there is one)ratio of heifers to bulls?
We've built up our farm slowly so still in the figure out things stage...
Not sold any but working our way to do that to cover costs basically... ( Not my full time job just enjoy the lifestyle)
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25-30 cows is all you want per bull.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2021 at 11:05am
My operation is survival of the fittest from 40 to 80 cows on 2500 acres or more. If a cow wants to hide she sure can. We work at having gentle cows and they come looking as we feed a lot more hay.  But they still need to travel to find food. I don't disturb calves with tags and like.

If the world was perfect. Wink  It would rain the 1st of Oct ( 4 to 6 inches) grass would jump out of the ground, cows would calve as soon as the rain stopped. Then rain a inch or 2 every 3 weeks. But weather is WEATHER man has no control. So a real guess as to when to calve. This year started calving in Oct feed hay until Mar 15. The poorest year in my 65 years. The state extension service has been recording grass tonnage for better than 20 years. This year is 80% LESS than normal. Just the way thing go in the Land of Fruits and Nuts. Looks good Wink every time I hear you guys talking of feeding in a blizzard and moving snow.  LOL The weather is why my cow numbers go up and down so much.

So this fall hopefully my cows will calve in 45 days. But the preg checkers are human to. There have been some from here that travel and do it all year, and are much better. When feed is good the window gets bigger and bigger. I am not the buy and sell type guy. As well as foothill abortion and anaplasmoses are thing that make it hard to bring cows in from other areas, but vaccines have been developed for both. So it may get easier in the future. 

So anyway calves are branded once a year given shots and castrated. Anything from one day old to 800 lbs . In winter all castration is done with a knife. Ones that are missed and castrated in warmer "fly season" do get banded. Not castrating cost a $100 or more at the auction so we do the best to get it done, but unusual to have a bull in the bunch leaving. Last year made a deal on a misted bull with guy in trade for work Wink he is reporting he tastes very good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allisbred Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2021 at 1:00pm
Holy cow!! 80 head on 30 acres here is considered wasted land—lol!    I am exaggerating a little but general rule of thumb is it takes (1) acre per 1000lbs of livestock to support in this area. That means the full program. With ag ground going for over 10k per acre, we need to get the most out of it. We fertilize pastures @100lbs per acre of nitrogen alone and add P&K/ micro nutrients as needed. Push grains crops to the maximum our ground will support to justify time spent. You do not see 2000acre plus farms, fields from 3-150 acres are normal. There are BTO’s that farm that kind of acreage but almost corporate at that point. Really sounds like a sight to see!

Edited by allisbred - 09 Jun 2021 at 1:23pm
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T-bone your ration would be considered a grow ration at 1% grain plus roughage. Depending on how good your roughage and how well they convert probably around a 2# gain give or take. Smaller cattle need more protein than older and less energy one without the other they are inefficient and expensive to feed. Obviously I’m not talking lactating cows. A really basic finish ration would be 80% rolled corn plus mineral pack, obviously rumensin included and 20% ground alfalfa. All they can eat out a mixer box. That would be a real dry ration and when they’re finished guessing good cattle would eat 27-29# a day. If they back off they got to go because they’re done and conversion creators and cost of gain goes through the roof. Right now I have steers and heifers at the feedlot their ration is high moisture corn, rolled corn, DDG, ground alfalfa, mineral pack. They are eating 34# a day costing $4 a day. I’m sure hoping they convert and gain over 4 or it’s not going to end well They’re charX of my own cows so I’m sure they feed for under a buck.    Looks to me they weigh around 1200 they went in at 10 months at 850. Been on feed (all the corn they can eat)120 days another month they’re going.

My grow ration at my place is 47% sorghum silage, 25% WDG, 18% ground hay(Sudan), 10% grain with soy and mineral pack. Feed all they can eat and gets around a 2# gain. I take them from around 350 to 700-850 depending on steers heifers. Then feed them or sell them.

Oh by the way cattle eat 2% of their body weight dry matter per day, you probably know that but that’s why a high moisture finish ration they consume more. Also no finish yard will finish with straight corn silage as it has way to much roughage although it could be done it would just take longer and cost more.

Hope that makes sense I’m struggling on a phone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2021 at 7:10am
Originally posted by Kansas99 Kansas99 wrote:

T-bone your ration would be considered a grow ration at 1% grain plus roughage. Depending on how good your roughage and how well they convert probably around a 2# gain give or take. Smaller cattle need more protein than older and less energy one without the other they are inefficient and expensive to feed. Obviously I’m not talking lactating cows. A really basic finish ration would be 80% rolled corn plus mineral pack, obviously rumensin included and 20% ground alfalfa. All they can eat out a mixer box. That would be a real dry ration and when they’re finished guessing good cattle would eat 27-29# a day. If they back off they got to go because they’re done and conversion creators and cost of gain goes through the roof. Right now I have steers and heifers at the feedlot their ration is high moisture corn, rolled corn, DDG, ground alfalfa, mineral pack. They are eating 34# a day costing $4 a day. I’m sure hoping they convert and gain over 4 or it’s not going to end well They’re charX of my own cows so I’m sure they feed for under a buck.    Looks to me they weigh around 1200 they went in at 10 months at 850. Been on feed (all the corn they can eat)120 days another month they’re going.

My grow ration at my place is 47% sorghum silage, 25% WDG, 18% ground hay(Sudan), 10% grain with soy and mineral pack. Feed all they can eat and gets around a 2# gain. I take them from around 350 to 700-850 depending on steers heifers. Then feed them or sell them.

Oh by the way cattle eat 2% of their body weight dry matter per day, you probably know that but that’s why a high moisture finish ration they consume more. Also no finish yard will finish with straight corn silage as it has way to much roughage although it could be done it would just take longer and cost more.

Hope that makes sense I’m struggling on a phone.

Oh, it makes sense.......and if I had huge numbers of head, and shipped even a trailer load to an auction or whatever every so often, I would probably change.  But, for my facilities, and satisfying freezer customers scattered throughout a year, my way works for me.  In other words, if I had all my fats finished that quickly all at once, I wouldn't have anyplace to sell them economically.  As freezer beef, I can set my price to some extent.  If I can get $1900 for a critter and know it, to me it's better than putting them in my trailer and going to the sale (100 miles one way), and getting god knows what.

So yes, I get it, I understand.  Guess I'm just different.  And LOTS of compliments on my meat, so. . . 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allisbred Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2021 at 1:43pm
Kansas99,   Why do you use alfalfa in the mix for you finish steers? Alfalfa here is premium money and was wondering if you needed that extra protein or benefit from sugar content? I guess I am wondering how much benefit using alfalfa over poor quality hay?

Edited by allisbred - 10 Jun 2021 at 1:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2021 at 3:58pm
Not to speak for anyone else, but from looking at his ration he has no other source of protein, but DDG which is not the highest source.

Here in California cotton seed has always been a good protein source, but not so much now. In the old day near a million acres of cotton today 150,000  tops.


Are annual grasses that dry out by June have always needed a protein boost by fall for range cows.  Feeding cotton seed that has the oil extracted tends to dry into lumps and was called cake. So could be put out on the ground, but was really cheap in the beginning. By the time I can remember the cotton seed was always mixed with trace minerals and a bit of grain. Then somebody figured if you mixed salt you could feed it free choice and not have to feed daily.

My dad took that so far as to have wood feeders that held 4 ton at a time. Fill them in the fall in places you would have a hard time reaching once our rains started. Any old dry rained on grass with high protein and a small amount of grain mixed with 33% salt to limit consumption and we where set for winter. Never feed a bale of hay. But Cargill getting a monopoly on the salt business has changed the game again. The last year I fed any amount of salt mix as it was called the salt cost as much as protein and grain in it. Using my labor to feed hay daily became cheaper.  

Since I can grow grain to make into hay and have no water to grow alfalfa we still need to feed a protein source. But don't need that much. Some years with just bit of fall rain to start the grass they don't need much hay. The 200 lb tubs of molasses base are used by just about all around here now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kansas99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2021 at 4:50pm
Tbone, I didn’t mean what you do doesn’t work for you I was just pointing to a grain ration or grower ration which we do out here. It’s as you were saying different for what the big packers buy and how we feed them. You make money we all loose $40-150 per head so the packer can make $1100.

And that’s no joke! If you think meat in the store is too high it is. Last pen I sold I lost $14 hd and if they only yielded 64% the packer pocketed $1128 hd. I’ve never seen anything like this. That’s why almost every calf I had this year has been sold as feeders. Tired of donating profits to packer. To think we pay for their advertising and they screw our customers. Thanks beef checkoff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2021 at 5:03pm
Kanas you want a R calf petition to end the check off BS? I hear you we need regulation on the monopoly in packing business not looking at every cow t**d to see if it will get wet if it rains. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2021 at 6:02pm
Originally posted by Kansas99 Kansas99 wrote:

Tbone, I didn’t mean what you do doesn’t work for you I was just pointing to a grain ration or grower ration which we do out here. It’s as you were saying different for what the big packers buy and how we feed them. You make money we all loose $40-150 per head so the packer can make $1100.

And that’s no joke! If you think meat in the store is too high it is. Last pen I sold I lost $14 hd and if they only yielded 64% the packer pocketed $1128 hd. I’ve never seen anything like this. That’s why almost every calf I had this year has been sold as feeders. Tired of donating profits to packer. To think we pay for their advertising and they screw our customers. Thanks beef checkoff.


It’s all good my friend, I didn’t take what you said poorly at all. It’s a good conversation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kansas99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2021 at 8:08pm
Ray, there’s soymeal in my grain.😉 Ration in the bunk will run close to 13% which is more than enough for weaning calves. In the past I’ve fed nothing other than WDG and protein is low maybe little under 11% cattle do ok but don’t utilize all the energy in the ration. They aren’t quite as fleshy so they end up converting better on the finish ration but the cost of gain growing is more even though the ration costs less than a no grain ration.   Finish yard will use DDG for protein but we’re talking a animal that is there to add meat and fat so protein need isn’t as much as one adding frame.

Creep feeders are still used a little out here but yearlings on grass that go to the sale will get a big discount if they smell like they were on a creep. It just kills their conversion and nobody likes high cost of gains.

Back you mentioned vaccines and yes pretty much all the fly weights I buy to grow come out of Dublin GA and the death loss can get ugly but I figure that at 5% death loss is normal. What they cost local I can lose 10% and still be money ahead.

Here was my program this year that worked excellent. Only change over any other year was the shots back east were changed. So the very day they show up in the yard in GA, and I’m talking a 3 day buy and worked every time each set comes into yard until the load is completed, they get enforce 3, one shot bvd, la300, and a myco vax that my vet has made for SC/GA cattle (he buys out of SC). They usually ship Thursday morning show up here Friday morning. Then Sunday is day 1 they get pyramid 2&5 mixed, 7way, couple vet vaccines, implants, cut, exceed, that’s considered day one. Then day 5 is pyramid 1&3 mixed and diluted with 100cc sterile dilute and myco booster, the day 10 is pyramid 1&3 mixed no diluted, more vet vaccines boost, Zantac, then day 17 is pyramid 2&5 mixed and vet vaccine boosted(nothing special just his own myco and pasterella). This program got a got a 5% pull rate with under a 2% death loss. Incredible results. The only difference from last 10 years was the enforce and one shot back east instead of tsv-2. I can’t buy them locally and lose zero and have less money in them.

Sorry still using phone probably didn’t make sense. Been long week milo in before corn furrowing and wheat harvest. Actually been working on this post for 3 hours.
If you had a dollar for every time socialism worked you'd have zero dollars, ironically if socialism did work you'd still have zero dollars.

Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you.
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