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Has anyone TURBOED an AC 180?

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nsula_country View Drop Down
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Joined: 10 Mar 2011
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nsula_country Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Has anyone TURBOED an AC 180?
    Posted: 06 Aug 2011 at 1:06pm

I would be interested in putting a turbo on my AC 180. Not so much for draft/tillage work, but PTO use. I know a lot of companies made after market turbo kits for JD's and Internationals. Never seen a kit for Allis Chalmers.

I have heard of people putting a turbo on a 185 though. Same engine, transmission, and rear. Also it is governed higher to bring the PTO HP from 64 to 74. I'm not looking to make 40 psi of boost, I just want to give it a little more grunt. I plan to have the pump overhauled as well. I can have the fuel set up by a diesel shop if I have the turbo installed.

If anyone has a turbo 180 or 185, I'd like pictures. If you did the work yourself, what was involved.

The 190xt has a 301 also correct? Would the 190 manifolds, ect fit up?

Thanks.



Edited by nsula_country - 06 Aug 2011 at 1:11pm
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2011 at 6:31pm
If you don't mind cutting a different exhaust hole in the hood, you can use everything from a 190XT or a 200. If you want to use the original hood hole, get the exhaust manifold and turbo from a 190XT or 200 and mount the turbo backwards. Then you'll have to make oil lines and other air plumbing which isn't hard if you're good with a wrench/torch/welder/drill.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2011 at 8:20pm
Sure- aint no big deal ; its easiest if you take one off a 190 xt or 200 , and like the Dr said to cut a hole in the hood for the pipe , that looks the best  ; that 301 loves more air and it,ll  gain bout 20 more horses ;
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hurst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2011 at 8:31pm
I'm not much of an expert, but I'd be worried about the cooling system handling the extra power.  Of course, if it's only for momentary use, it shouldn't be a problem, but if you want extra power through the PTO for a pretty good duty cycle, you could run into problems.

Hurst
1979 Allis Chalmers 7000
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2011 at 8:57pm
The 180,190 xt, etc all use pretty much the same radiator , 200,s a little different , little bigger ,  you can use a different fan for more air flow too , that helps a bunch  but I,ve never had any issues with overheating

Edited by DougG - 06 Aug 2011 at 8:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DanWi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2011 at 10:22pm
Did the late 180/185 use the same fan and 2 belt pulleys as the 200 or were they the same as a 190? 200 system would help the cooling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nsula_country Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2011 at 3:57am

Cool, 190xt and 200 parts will interchange. That make it seem a lot easier. I do not mind moving the hole in the hood if required. I have some bodywork to do before I paint it anyway.

Now I have to start finding parts. Sounds straight forward. Once the turbo is installed, how much fuel/timing work has to be done?

CT

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2011 at 12:08pm
set the fuel system up as if it were a 190XT. I could help out with that if needed.
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eric[IL] Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2011 at 1:00pm
Unless you're going to rebuild your 180s fuel pump, it might make sense to swap a 190s fuel system (pump, lines, & injectors) in the process?  I'm not sure, but the 190s injectors may be different size (larger) from the 180s?  I'm sure someone on this site would know differences or not.  It appears that you will be doing a 190 exhaust/turbo swap anyway and the fuel parts may also be available?

Is there much difference in the 170, 175, 180, & 185 rear ends?  I am aware of the different power directors.  But from the transmission back, did AC make any differential / final drive size changes between these models?

I also have seen a couple of 180 or 185s set up as pulling tractors.  Do those pullers use the same stock tranny/rearend combos or do they modify it?  I guess what I am getting at is how much of a hp increase can the 170 - 185s handle without it being damaging to the power train?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2011 at 2:18pm

You may look at a 170/175 rearend/final drives/axles from the outside and think it's the same as a 180/185 and I can assure you they are not, in fact other than the brakes, very little to nothing is the same including the rearend case itself.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2011 at 7:13pm
I put 200 injectors in my 185 and they were much larger than the 185s. Ido know that my 185 and 175 have the same size  rear axle and the same housing # and the same # of teeth on the pinion shaft and the same teeth # on the final drive gear . Although I am not sure that they are as wide. DrAllis  more about that than I would.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2011 at 8:49pm
A 180 pump is basically the same as a 190 pump, minor parts differences, and settings. If it hasn't been rebuilt recently, then it sure wouldn't hurt to freshen it up, and then changes can be made to perform like you desire. If you buy a 190 pump used, then it too will likely need attention. Ed.
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Burgie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2011 at 5:51am
When I worked for the dealership in the late 70`s and early 80`s, we sold turbo kits for the 180`s and 185`s.
"Burgie"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nsula_country Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2011 at 8:20am
Was that an Allis-Chalmers kit or after market?

Seems I can take 190xt parts and build up a turbo 180. I need to take my pump in and have it rebuilt anyway, it leaks and the governor surges sometimes under light loads.

Should I use the 190xt injectors too or are they the same size as the 180? Obviously the 200's are larger, maybe a good thing. Do the 200 injectors help when turbocharging a 301? If I pieced this together what would I need other than a turbo, exhaust manifold, intake tube? Where do the oil lines tie in? Isn't there an inter cooled version of this too?

CT


Edited by nsula_country - 08 Aug 2011 at 8:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2011 at 10:10am
you'll want to put 190XT/200 nozzle tips in the injectors when rebuilding them. That same nozzle is used on larger tractors including 7060.
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nsula_country Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2011 at 10:33am
Good info on the nozzle tips. I will definatly look into that as well. Sounds like I need to find someone parting out a 190XT or 200. I do not think it would be cost effective to buy all this new.

If I have some small blow-by, would it be smart to re-sleeve the engine before turbo mod?

CT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2011 at 12:20pm
get ahold of me. I can set you up with all the fuel system components, & can provide them to you rebuilt & ready to go. Ed.
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Burgie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2011 at 12:31pm
That was a kit that the dealership made up.
"Burgie"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Russ SCPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2011 at 2:03pm
Well if you really want to do it right, go find an M3 or L2 in a salvage yard witht he 145 hp version of the 301, turboed- innercooled   engines are noted as much longer lived than the rest of a combine.
7020 engine-------------- 'nuff said?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2011 at 2:05pm
if you hook i tto the ground you will slip the power director if you crank it too much
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2011 at 4:20pm
I had over 100 hp on my 185 with the stock noozles , but later I put 200 noozles. When my 185 was the main tractor I used to pull 5x16s and 9ft chisel with it in mostly clay and clayloam soils with no power director problems with sliping. I also pull 7500 and 8000lb tractor pulls,( twice a year ) in high third with no problems at tractor pulls .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote feuchter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 4:59pm
I would really like to tackle putting a turbo on my 180 exactly how hard is it and what would I need to get

Edited by feuchter - 27 Feb 2017 at 5:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DSeries4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 8:38pm
Read everything above.
'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2017 at 1:19pm
neighbor had a 180 chore tractor with loader and rear bale forks he fed hay every day with.They turboed it after a few years and claimed it made it stingy on fuel.The old man probably never got over half throttle with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote olivetroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2017 at 1:04pm
Originally posted by SteveM C/IL SteveM C/IL wrote:

neighbor had a 180 chore tractor with loader and rear bale forks he fed hay every day with.They turboed it after a few years and claimed it made it stingy on fuel.The old man probably never got over half throttle with it.


We did the same thing to a 180 - used it as a planter tractor. We geared up and throttled down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote feuchter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2017 at 6:36pm
Originally posted by DSeries4 DSeries4 wrote:

Read everything above.


So I'm to assume that I can bolt on a 190 manifold and turbo and figure out where lines go and I'll have a turbo 180.... I believe it to be more complicated than that
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2017 at 6:26am
I'd want an engine oil cooler
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tbran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2017 at 8:09am
This is the bottom line,  the 2800 engine was set at this hp because it was about as high a naturally aspirated state as would live at about 80 engine hp. You can add a turbo and it will add almost no hp unless you have had the pump output increased or you do increase it.  As the hp goes up, so does the heat.  The larger nozzels, increased output will increase the heat that has to be dissipated.  The units that had cabs installed had a 6 blade aluminum fan to increase the air flow thus helping this issue. Above about 95 hp on a hot day you are going to be straining the limits of cooling.  The oil temp will also be increased as it passes thru the approx 1000 degree turbo bearing and turbine shaft assy and picks up this temp.  The 190xt had an oil cooler that took heat from the oil and put it in the water to dissipate. The 200 came out with pistons that had .030 smaller piston tops above the top ring to prevent piston gaulding.  The other engines of this family all had cooling devices added such as intercoolers for the air that all required larger radiators for the necessary thermal rejection of the heat produced.  Keep this in mind. We have several engines on the farm producing much more hp than standard and on pto work can survive at this hp level. If we weighted and used all the hp in traction we would bring on transmission issues, which we don't.  Use the brain the good lord giveth and you can have a lot of fun playing outside the box...  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote feuchter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2017 at 5:35pm
Well if I do this it will be for pto work I have no issues plowing with it the way it is and I am lucky enough to have the 6 blade fan and I would love to get 90hp out of it I think that would be about where I Wana be to have the extra pto grunt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WD45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2017 at 8:24pm
When I purchased our 185 in 2003 it was equipped with a turbo. 2009 we installed a new Allis engine kit and the tractor tested out at 91 PTO hp on the 1000 shaft. This is our choir tractor and it runs a sucker blower, grain augers, moves wagons and grades the driveway.
Fred Dunlop, G,B,CA, WC,WF, 3 WD45`s,gas, diesel and LP,U,D10 series III, D12,D14,D15 SERIES II,D17 Series IV in Gas and Diesel ,D19 GAS and D21,170 185,210 ,220 an I-600 8070 fwd, 716H and 1920H
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