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Hand Crank

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Dale (Stonelick) View Drop Down
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Joined: 13 Jun 2019
Location: Stonelick, Ohio
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    Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 8:14pm
Started work on a CA in poor shape.  Serial # 6939 (1951). Engine # CE152502GA.  Since the electrical system is toast, I first wanted to get it started using the hand crank.  However, the crankshaft pulley is not designed to accept a hand crank.  Was this engine not designed to use a hand crank?
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Sugarmaker View Drop Down
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Location: Albion PA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 8:20pm
Dale,
 Welcome! I have done a couple tractors from the crankshaft to the drawbar! Fun projects!
I dont have the answer. Someone here will though!
Regards,
 Chris
D17, WD45, WD,
Ford Jubilee, IH TD6
Many IH Cub Cadets
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Bill Long View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Long Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 9:21am
The CA's came from the factory with the set up for a hand crank.  However, with the advent of crankshaft mounted hyd pumps after market items may well have replaced the original.
You have a neat tractor in the CA.  Hope you get it working well.
Good Luck!
Bill Long
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CTuckerNWIL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 9:53am
Originally posted by Dale (Stonelick) Dale (Stonelick) wrote:

Since the electrical system is toast, I first wanted to get it started using the hand crank.  However, the crankshaft pulley is not designed to accept a hand crank. 


You don't need any part of the electrical system to start it with the starter, except the battery cables and a good battery. If it has had the Magneto replaced with a distributor, you will need a jumper wire from the battery to the coil.


Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 14 Jun 2019 at 10:12am
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Gerald J. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 10:04am
The shop manual has a wiring diagram and lots of engine details:

http://geraldj.networkiowa.com/Trees/Allis-Chalmers-G-B-C-CA-Service.pdf

Gerald J.
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Dale (Stonelick) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale (Stonelick) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2019 at 9:15am
Bill Long: You are correct. I was following service manual to set the gap on rocker/push rods after having a valve job. The manual said to use hand crank to move each rod to lowest position before setting the gap.  So I tried to push the tractor in gear instead - not a very workable solution.  I'm trying to find a used hand crank pulley on-line, but I'm having trouble finding one.  But I'll keep looking.

C Tucker:  Thanks for the electrical information.  Assuming I'll need a new coil (among other items) - are these universal (can I buy one at a car parts store) or do I need one specific to the Allis Chalmers CA?

Gerald: Thanks for the manual.  It is much different than the one that came with the tractor I bought. 
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Dale (Stonelick) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale (Stonelick) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2019 at 9:25am
I will need some general items during this re-build (gasket set, zenith carb re-build set, points/plugs).  Is there a good one stop web site to get these at reasonable prices, or is best just to search for each item as I need it?
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CTuckerNWIL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2019 at 9:56am
Originally posted by Dale (Stonelick) Dale (Stonelick) wrote:


C Tucker:  Thanks for the electrical information.  Assuming I'll need a new coil (among other items) - are these universal (can I buy one at a car parts store) or do I need one specific to the Allis Chalmers CA?




I don't think I would waste the time and money, for one from an autoparts store, unless it is  a Flamethrower from Pertronics. I went that way on my WC and could never get it to start with the starter. Always had to hand crank it and it ran fine.
 After checking everything I could imagine a couple times, I check the coil. It showed 2.2 ohms, but should have been 1.5.
 I found the Flamethrower 1.5 ohm coil online for half again what I payed for the junk Chinese coil. She pops right off with the starter now.
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Sugarmaker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2019 at 1:16pm
Dale,
 Several suppliers of Allis parts as sponsers on here. I use Sandy Lake a lot. Brenda and or Bill can help you with most parts and have some good used items too.
 Regards,
 Chris
D17, WD45, WD,
Ford Jubilee, IH TD6
Many IH Cub Cadets
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WF owner View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2019 at 4:23pm
SteveinNJ, owner of B& B Circuits (https://www.bb-customcircuits.com/) has quality parts.

You will find a lot of cheap Chinese parts available from Ebay and a lot of the internet suppliers. It's a case of you get what you pay for. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigGuy1000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2019 at 7:12pm
The reason for this(see CTucker post above) is that on a 6 volt system the voltage at the battery and to the coil may drop as low as 3 volts for a small fraction of a second at the top of compression, just when it is most needed to fire the plug. 3 volts/1.5 ohms is 2 amps, this is enough stored energy to fire the plug even into the compressed air and gas in the cylinder at that time.  3 volts/2.2 ohms = not enough energy. The original engineers at AC and Delco knew all this very well! My original Delco coil on a WD measures about 1.1 ohms. On a 12 volt system the numbers are different of course, and the battery voltage at cranking does not drop so much, but the energy required is the same(there is less voltage drop in wires in a 12V system).
Unfortunately, many cheaper ohmmeters do not have the resolution needed to tell the difference between 1.5 and 2.0 ohms(I use an old Simpson 260).  Most and perhaps all of the foreign made coils are more than 2 ohms.  Most people at the usual auto parts supply stores(OReilly,Carquest, etc) do not know what you are talking about if you ask about ohms on their coils and have no way of finding out and no meter that can tell. 

  
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Dale (Stonelick) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale (Stonelick) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2019 at 8:02pm
I gave up trying to find a reasonably pricing hand crank crank shaft pulley.

I was able to set the gap between rocker arm and push rods by manually pulling on the fan belt, after lubing the cylinders real good with automatic transmission fluid (the engine was originally stuck).

Since my electrical system is toast, I'm thinking about converting to 12 volt with electronic distributor.  I've asked two suppliers for quotes on all the parts I'll need.  Any advice on this approach?
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WF owner View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2019 at 8:26pm
I, personally, would (and have in the past) contact Steve Barbato at https://www.bb-customcircuits.com/ . Not only does Steve have excellent quality, reasonably priced parts, but he is very knowledgeable and will give you excellent advice. You don't find that with some vendors.
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Sugarmaker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2019 at 8:37pm
Dale,
Looking forward to tagging along on your CA build! Pictures would be good too!:)
 Regards,
 Chris
D17, WD45, WD,
Ford Jubilee, IH TD6
Many IH Cub Cadets
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Ted in NE-OH View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ted in NE-OH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2019 at 5:56pm
Some of the after market suppliers such as Steiner sell pulleys without the capability of cranking.
CA, WD, C, 3 Bs, 2 Gs, WC, I-400, 914
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Dick L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2019 at 6:34pm
What part of Ohio is Stonelick located?    
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Dave(inMA) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave(inMA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2019 at 8:57pm
Dick - per Google Maps, Stonelick is about 200 miles due south of Edon - about 25 miles east of Cincinnati.
WC, CA, D14, WD45
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HoughMade View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HoughMade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2019 at 9:44pm
My B has an aftermarket crank pulley without provision for a hand crank.

To slowly turn the engine over for setting timing and such, I engage the PTO, trans in neutral, and turn the engine with a pipe wrench on the PTO.
1951 B
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Dale (Stonelick) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale (Stonelick) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2019 at 9:58pm
WF - I've asked Steve at B&B for quotes.  I agree that he is very knowledgeable.

Sugarmaker - I don't seem to have the function to post pictures.

Ted - Yes, aftermarket suppliers of new pulley's don't seem to have the handcrank features.  Used ones seems to be overpriced.

Dick & Dave - Yes, Stonelick is east of Cincinnati between Batavia & Milford.
 
More questions - (1) do most restorers sandblast & repaint after getting all mechanicals fixed and tractor running (which would require tear down of the tractor again), or do they sandblast and paint after fixing each component?  (2) The prior owner appears to have blocked off about 8 rods in the radiator due to damage.  Is it okay to try to use the radiator as is, or should I try to get these rods fixed, or should I buy an expensive new radiator?
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Dick L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2019 at 7:50pm
I thought if you were closer I would tell you to drive up my way some weekend and I would point you in the possible direction and let you hunt for a pulley. 200 miles would make it an expensive pulley.
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