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Old Yeller 
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Joined: 16 Sep 2013
Location: NE Lower Mich
Points: 8
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 Topic: H3 Electrical System
Posted: 10 Jun 2014 at 7:55pm |
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I am the new owner of a 1961 H3 dozer and I would like to install a 12-volt electrical winch on it. I would prefer to run it off the existing battery/generator charging system so I don't have to worry about keeping an auxilliary battery charged. Since the winch is made to run off a modern 12V NEGATIVE GROUND system and my H3 has a POSITIVE GROUND system, I am wondering how hard it is to convert the H3 to a negative ground system. Has anyone done this? If it is too difficult to convert (and I'm pretty much a novice mechanic) I am wondering if I go the auxiliary battery route...do I need to worry about electrically isolating the winch mount from the frame of the dozer. If so, I'm not sure if this is possible because the mounting plate for the winch would have to be bolted to the dozer frame. Anyone having any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated.
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DiyDave
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Gambrills, MD
Points: 50548
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Posted: 10 Jun 2014 at 8:36pm |
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Just switch out the genny to a GM 1 wire alternator. And switch grounding polarity. Probably the cheapest route.
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DSeries4
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Points: 7204
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Posted: 10 Jun 2014 at 9:08pm |
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Change around the battery cables on the battery, switch the 2 wires that are on the back of the ammeter, and spin your coil around 180 degrees so the small wire going to the distributor comes from the negative terminal. Aside from that, put a 12V battery on it and also get a 12V generator for it (or you can get your 6V genny rewired for 12).
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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DSeries4
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Points: 7204
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Posted: 10 Jun 2014 at 9:29pm |
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I almost forgot, you would need a 12 volt coil too.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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Old Yeller
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Joined: 16 Sep 2013
Location: NE Lower Mich
Points: 8
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Posted: 11 Jun 2014 at 6:02pm |
Thanks for the responses.
To DiyDave: thanks for the suggestion about converting to an alternator,
but I would really like to keep the dozer as close to original as possible (or
at least as easily returnable to original as possible) even while adding my “modern”
accessories. I’ll keep the alternator
idea in mind in case my ground conversion doesn’t work out the way I want it
to.
To Dseries4: you make the ground
conversion sound like something I could do and that is certainly good
news. I did some additional research
today and there is frequent mention of having to re-polarize the
generator. Is that something that
should be added to your description or do you think it unnecessary? By the way, the H3 is already a 12V system
so no need to replace the battery, generator, or coil. I sure hope this is as uncomplicated as it
is starting to seem.
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DiyDave
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Gambrills, MD
Points: 50548
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Posted: 11 Jun 2014 at 7:14pm |
 Old Yeller wrote:
Thanks for the responses.
To DiyDave: thanks for the suggestion about converting to an alternator,
but I would really like to keep the dozer as close to original as possible (or
at least as easily returnable to original as possible) even while adding my “modern”
accessories. I’ll keep the alternator
idea in mind in case my ground conversion doesn’t work out the way I want it
to.
To Dseries4: you make the ground
conversion sound like something I could do and that is certainly good
news. I did some additional research
today and there is frequent mention of having to re-polarize the
generator. Is that something that
should be added to your description or do you think it unnecessary? By the way, the H3 is already a 12V system
so no need to replace the battery, generator, or coil. I sure hope this is as uncomplicated as it
is starting to seem.
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A GM alternator might be cheaper than other options. You adapt the GM alt to the existing bracket, and use the BAT wire, from the regulator, just insulate and tuck the other 2 wires out of sight, and it can easily be converted back...
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Bud(WI)
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Points: 68
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Posted: 11 Jun 2014 at 8:12pm |
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Follow the wiring changes dseries4 suggested in his first sentence and re-polarize your generator and you have a 12 volt NEGATIVE ground rather than POSITIVE ground. It really is that easy.
Hope you have as much fun with your H# as I have with mine (and that yours isn't as worn out as mine...)
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CTuckerNWIL
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: NW Illinois
Points: 22810
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Posted: 11 Jun 2014 at 9:56pm |
Guys, why buy an alternator when he already has a 12 volt genny?  The voltage regulator may be ground specific ??????? Other than that switch the amp meter wires, turn the coil around , switch the battery cables and polarize the genny.
Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 11 Jun 2014 at 9:59pm
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Old Yeller
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Joined: 16 Sep 2013
Location: NE Lower Mich
Points: 8
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Posted: 12 Jun 2014 at 7:18pm |
Ok guys, I’m almost ready to take the plunge on this
positive to negative ground conversion…but I would like some reassurance on one
little detail if I can get it.
Apparently, when it comes to re-polarizing the generator, it makes a
significant difference if the generator is an “A” circuit system (externally
grounded field winding) or a “B” circuit system (internally grounded field
winding). My generator is an OEM Delco
Remy Model 1100305 but you can’t tell by just looking whether it is wired “A”
or “B” and I can’t find any tech data
that tells which it might be. I did
however find an after-market replacement for the original voltage regulator
which says the replacement regulator is for an “A” circuit system. Based on this little thread of info, I am
prepared to assume (yeah, I know!!  ) that the generator is an “A” circuit. If it is an “A” circuit the procedure for
re-polarizing would be to connect a jumper wire to the positive battery post
and briefly touch the other end to the armature (A) terminal on the generator
(doing this because the voltage regulator terminals are a little hard to get
to). Can anybody confirm that this is
the right (or wrong) way to go about the re-polarization? In any event, thanks for all the useful
comments to date.
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Steve in NJ
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Andover, NJ
Points: 11552
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Posted: 13 Jun 2014 at 6:45am |
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I'm getting in on this kinda late, but better late than never I always say. The change from Pos. to Neg. ground isn't such a big deal. As Myron & "Tuck" suggested, switching a couple wires around along with the Battery cables to Neg ground is all that needs to be done in circuitry prep. I would suggest tho, installing a new VR to mate with the 1100305 Gennie and polarize it to Neg. Grd. We have a wall full of VR's, so we could help you out there with that if interested.
Now for your winch installation, I suggest using a deep cycle Battery or 31 series Diesel Battery along with an inverter to aid in the charging of the aux. Battery. When the chassis Battery is satisfied and reserve is up, the inverter will automatically switch over to the aux Battery and let the Gennie charge the aux. Battery also. Your 305 Gennie is rated at about 35-40 amps max output (although it is capable to put out more if actually full fielded) so using an inverter will go easy on the Generator in the charging department. Using one Battery to power everything on board the Dozer would definitely put the ole' Gennie into overload and then "tilt" mode. Dave is correct as far as going the cheaper route with an "SI" series Delco Alternator, but I wouldn't go the one wire route. A three wire would be more efficient for the application, and using the three wire in conjunction with the inverter would keep both Batteries up much better than the low amp Gennie. But, you're looking to keep the OEM look of the Dozer, so the Gennie would work providing the winch is only used on occasions. There's an article I wrote on our website about one wires vs three wire Alternators that help explain what I mean when it comes to the charging department. If we can help you with any of your electrical needs, drop us an e-mail. Be happy to help you out..
Steve@B&B
bb-customcircuits.com
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Old Yeller
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Joined: 16 Sep 2013
Location: NE Lower Mich
Points: 8
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Posted: 01 Jul 2014 at 4:29pm |
I thought I would post the end to this "story" for anyone that may be interested in how it turned out. I am happy to report that the conversion was easy to do and seems to be working fine. I haven't installed the electric winch yet (which was the whole purpose for the conversion) but I am having to modify the winch mounting plate and that is taking a while. I wrote up the procedure that I used for the conversion and here it is for anyone that may want to use it in the future:
Positive
to Negative Ground H3 Bulldozer Conversion (For an “A” Circuit Charging System)
Make
sure that your charging system is an “A” circuit system (generator field
winding is externally grounded) versus a “B” circuit system (generator field
winding is internally grounded). This
step can take a little work or research time because you can’t tell the
difference just by looking at the generator, however it is important because
the procedure for re-polarizing the generator is different for a “B” circuit system
than for the “A” circuit system described below.
Make
sure the key is in the “Off” position.
Disconnect
the battery terminals and turn the battery around (but don’t reconnect the
cables yet). Check to make sure the
cables reach to the new terminal locations and the lugs look like they will fit
their new posts (since the post sizes may be slightly different).
Switch
the leads on the back of the ammeter by simply swapping their connections.
Switch
the leads on the coil by disconnecting them, rotating the coil 180 degrees and
reconnecting them to the opposite pole.
Negative should now go to the distributor and positive should go to the
ignition switch.
Connect the ground wire from the dozer frame to the
negative post of the battery (i.e., make the battery “negative ground”).
Attach
the cable leading from the starter solenoid to the positive terminal of the
battery.
Take
a length of insulated jumper wire and connect one end to the positive post of
the battery. Briefly touch the other end of the wire to the armature (A)
terminal on the generator a couple of times. This generally produces a spark.
Remove the jumper wire from the positive post of the battery. This operation
re-polarizes the generator.
The
electrical system should now be a “negative ground” system and it is ok to
start the engine and check the charging system for correct operation.
Thanks again to all who helped me figure this out and get it done.
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