180-185 Questions for DR Allis

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   I have a few hydraulic questions:
1. Are the hydraulic systems the same on either the 180 & 185 tractors?
2. Does the hyd pump have separate flow systems - steering, 3pt/valves?
3. What are the flow rates in gpm per system?
4. Where does the power director hydraulics get its flow from?

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Eric[IL] Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Illinois Points: 485	Post Options Post Reply Quote Eric[IL] Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: 180-185 Questions for DR Allis Posted: 15 Feb 2010 at 10:37am
	I have a few hydraulic questions: 1. Are the hydraulic systems the same on either the 180 & 185 tractors? 2. Does the hyd pump have separate flow systems - steering, 3pt/valves? 3. What are the flow rates in gpm per system? 4. Where does the power director hydraulics get its flow from?

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DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19583	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Feb 2010 at 4:30pm
	1. Essentially the same. 2. Three gear type pumps all bolted together. 3. Front pump is power steering/power director clutch and PTO clutch and 5.8 GPM....middle pump is 3 pt and remotes and is 10.5 GPM....rear pump is Traction Booster section and is 3.4 GPM. 4. Power steering circuit.

Eric[IL] Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Illinois Points: 485	Post Options Post Reply Quote Eric[IL] Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Feb 2010 at 8:52am
	I appreciate you sharing your knowledge of these specs. It is exactly what I need. I do not have a manual for these tractors. Is this info contained in the manual? From the front pump gears 5.8 gpm, what individual volumes do the the following component require when activated? Are their required volumes only needed to assist activation or do they require a constant volume? Do any of them receive a priority all the time, contain less load, or have a less restricted orfice? Power steering Power director pto clutch Please correct me if I am thinking incorrectly about how the open centered hydraulic system works, but here is how I see it. 1. A specific volume of oil is being pumped continuously to numerous components(valve) all the time - right? It travels thru each component's centers similtaneously? 2. When a component is activated, it utilizes the volume or a portion of the volume based on pressure (load), orfice restrictions, or both? 3. So if mutilple components are activated similtaneously, then the least restricted orfice or pressure receives the majority of volume?

DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19583	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Feb 2010 at 9:41am
	1. Yes...dependent upon engine/pump RPM. The flow travels from steering valve first (safety priority) then to the PD valve and from there to the PTO valve (optional). On the lift circuit it travels thru the center and if all valves were activated at once, it would perform the easiest job (lowest pressure) first and then onto the next easiest, etc. 2. Yes, and based on the percentage of opening of the valve as well....like gently raising a loader boom by opening the valve spool partially....some flow to the loader and the remainder back to sump. 3. Yes...see #2. Each "Open Center"pump has it's own relief valve to keep the pumps from ever momentarily being dead-headed and exploding them...oil doesn't compress and pressures reaching 3000 psi will fail any of the three pumps in the blink of an eye.

Eric[IL] Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Illinois Points: 485	Post Options Post Reply Quote Eric[IL] Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Feb 2010 at 10:59am
	1. The open center hydraulic system seems straight forward and basic. So, how does the closed center systems differ? 2. Do the 100 series tractors (170-190) have any additional hyd pumps in the rear end to supply oil to the main hyd pump mounted up on the engine? 3. On the 180s, is there a specific engine rpm level (1200, 1500, 1800 rpm) that equals maximum main hyd pump volume?

DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19583	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Feb 2010 at 12:05pm
	1. True closed center systems build pressure (like 2200 psi) and have zero flow, UNLESS there is a demand for oil....kind of like air brakes on a semi-truck. More modern (7010 and up) variable volume/variable pressure is the next improvement on closed center systems. 2. No. 3. If the pumps are healthy, full throttle on the engine puts out the most volume (GPM) of oil.

Skyhighballoon(MO) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Pilot Grove, MO Points: 3115	Post Options Post Reply Quote Skyhighballoon(MO) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Feb 2010 at 12:13pm
	Eric - to add to #2. 170/175/180/185/190 all have the hydraulic fluid reservoir in the torque tube. The transmission/differential houseing is a separate compartment. The engine mounted pumps on the 180/185/190 have a large suction line to the sump. It's part metal line and part rubber hose. Sometimes when the hoses get older and crack, air leaks can develop and cause the pump to lose prime. Mike
	1981 Gleaner F2 Corn Plus w 13' flex 1968 Gleaner EIII w 10' & 330 1969 180 gas 1965 D17 S-IV gas 1963 D17 S-III gas 1956 WD45 gas NF PS 1956 All-Crop 66 Big Bin 303 wire baler, 716H, 712H mowers

Eric[IL] Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Illinois Points: 485	Post Options Post Reply Quote Eric[IL] Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Feb 2010 at 12:25pm
	Great info - Thank you!

flyinaggie Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 30 Aug 2010 Points: 3	Post Options Post Reply Quote flyinaggie Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 Aug 2010 at 12:03pm
	I have some questions related to this thread. My 180 triple stage hydraulic pump just failed. Some piece of metal got jammed between the gears and spun the gear on the drive shaft. The $1500 price (lowest I found so far) for a replacement is staggering. Trying to determine if I have cheaper options. 1) Would it be possible to replace with a (presumably cheaper) 2 stage pump? I'm not sure how the traction booster works or if I need it, could it be disabled or plumbed into the center stage? 2) Trying to determine where the piece of metal came from that precipatated the failure. It has the look of a ball bearing. Could it have come from the pump itself somewhere or was it sucked in? 3) For about $300 I can get the shaft and gear assy and a seal kit. Unless retrofitting to a cheaper pump is an option, I'm tempted to try the repair route, but would like to have confidence there is not more wrong that I haven't discovered yet.

DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19583	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 Aug 2010 at 12:17pm
	Which pump failed?? front, middle or rear?? Retrofitting another type of pump would be a nightmare (I think)...none of the steel lines will fit and suction tube, etc...No ball brgs in the pump itself and there is suppossed to be a suction screen on the belly of the torque hsg to keep anything like that from getting in the pump...better take a look at it.

flyinaggie Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 30 Aug 2010 Points: 3	Post Options Post Reply Quote flyinaggie Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 Aug 2010 at 12:48pm
	I think the particular gear that spun is in the middle pump but it shuts down everything since the other stages drive off it.