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HD5 - Won't turn over
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TvilleMike View Drop Down
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Joined: 22 Oct 2013
Points: 5 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TvilleMike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: HD5 - Won't turn over
    Posted: 22 Oct 2013 at 1:35pm
I have a AC HD5 Bulldozer that I haven't used in a few years. I borrowed it from a relative and I am ready to send it back to him. I attempted to start it and it would not turn over. I noticed the can I was using as a rain cap was not on the muffler.  I pulled the starter and it seems to be working fine. Could there be water in the cylinders? If so, how can I release the pressure so it will turn over? Is the engine toast because of the possible water?

Should I attempt to lift the blade off the ground and try to jump start it? At this point I'm not sure what is wrong and don't want to make matters worse.

I would appreciate any suggestion on what I should do next.

Thanks!
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Coke-in-MN View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Points: 41217 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2013 at 1:43pm
It could have water down the stack and into cylinders . Or other issues - see if you can turn the engine at all with a pry onto the flywheel teeth.
 If it has water in cylinders it seems there would be water in the oil also , crack the drain plug on the pan and see if you get water seeping around the threads as plug is loosened . 
 If so you may have to pull the injectors to turn it over with no compression or hold the valves open on exhaust to allow it to turn over - pulling the injectors will mean you have to retime them when installing them back . 
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Points: 41217 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2013 at 1:44pm
Last one i had that would not turn over had a broken lobe on blower - water had went down stack - ran into blower housing - froze and cracked blower lobe . 
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Points: 5 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TvilleMike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2013 at 2:00pm
Thanks for you response!
Is the "lobe" part of the blower and not serviceable? Would I be able to see the crack without pulling the whole blower assembly?

I will try the pry bar. The starter would move the crank a 1/4 to 1/2 inch at a time. 
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Tried the pry bar - it didn't move at all.
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Coke-in-MN View Drop Down
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Points: 41217 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2013 at 2:56pm
If the pistons have water on top of them then adjusting the valve tight should relieve this . The other part of removing the injectors would open the cylinder to allow anything to escape and or to allow oil to be introduced into cylinder above the liner ports .
 As far as checking the blower - about the only way is by removal from engine to check it's condition. 
 So you are faced with how far down do you tear the engine to find the problem. 
Might also pull the inspection cover over clutch area and try turning the engine in both directions from there - making sure nothing is binding or stuck and transmission is in neutral so your not trying to move full machine by turning the flywheel. 
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Points: 33658 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote JC-WI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2013 at 3:49pm
Be careful on cranking the rocker arms sown to the point the pistons will hit them... there are weep holes in the airbox and see if they are open...If a 2-71 has air box covers, you can remove them and look in. ... Turn the engine backwards if you can till piston moves downward and the water is let out the air inlets in the sleeve... maybe you can suck the water out via a small hose from the bowl of piston...
  Good luck.
Seems the 2-71 is a different critter when it comes to design of its bigger brothers...
He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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Points: 5 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TvilleMike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2013 at 11:13am
JC,

I am not familiar with Diesel engines. What is the air box? Where is it located? I have been looking at a parts catalog online but don't see it listed. http://www.minnpar.com/partbooks/Allis%20Chalmers%20Construction%20%26%20Fiat%20Allis/Dozers/HD5%20PM%20%2370626003.PDF
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Coke-in-MN View Drop Down
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Points: 41217 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2013 at 12:33pm
The part with the big GM cast into side . in lower side of that is a drain plug - it must be open to allow moisture to drain from box.
 
http://www.rockanddirt.com/thumbnail?-DETROIT-DIESEL-2-71-&db=attachdb&height=280&width=385&border=0&fname=40324/5630438_a.jpg

On this view of engine you will see a plate bolted into casting - by removing this plate one can see the liners and the edge of the postons - this is also part of air box or intake part of engine . 
http://www.green-trust.org/photoalbum/veggiegen/slides/veggiegen%20002.jpg
 As Detroit 71 series is a 2 cycle engine - no intake valves are present but the piston acts as a valve - allowing the scavenge air to enter the combustion chamber to both expel burnt charge and to resupply clean air supply when exhaust valves are closed .   


Edited by Coke-in-MN - 24 Oct 2013 at 12:35pm
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Points: 942 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gemdozer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2013 at 5:37pm
Did you check your hydrolic lever if he is't engaged and if he is't disconnect the front hydrolic pump she could be frose in rust
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Coke-in-MN View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Points: 41217 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2013 at 12:44am
Never thought of that Hector - good idea , drop front guard and access hyd pump, move it out of mesh with front pulley and see if the pump is free 
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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