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Rich Steiner 
Silver Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Clarion PA
Points: 87
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 Topic: Messed up
Posted: 28 Jun 2011 at 7:56am |
I think I messed up. I have a 6 volt postive ground CA. I could not get it started. So I used my spare 12 volt battery to jump start. This tractor has a 6 volt coil.
When it started all it did was back fire and no power at all. Did I mess up the coil?
and how to I get it back the way it was. It ran fine until I jumped it with the 12 volt. Thanks Rich
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Dave Richards (WV)
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Fairmont, WV
Points: 877
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Posted: 28 Jun 2011 at 9:14am |
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Rich, there is a chance that the 12 jumpstart caused your problem. However, it is more likely that the original non start problem is still the problem. Check the spark at the plug. Check your points for burn marks and proper gap. A bad condenser can make it run bad also. I would check the timing first (free), then replace the condenser($5) , then points ($8), then coil ($30) if you still don't have spark.
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Jeff Z. NY
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Points: 7326
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Posted: 28 Jun 2011 at 9:19am |
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Change the points.
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Rich Steiner
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Clarion PA
Points: 87
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Posted: 29 Jun 2011 at 8:14am |
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Thanks Fellas
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Dick L
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Edon Ohio
Points: 5082
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Posted: 29 Jun 2011 at 2:13pm |
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A 12 volt jump battery is all I ever use to start my 6 volt tractors. With as many tractors I use at the house I don't even try to keep all the batterys up. The 6 volt battery acts as a condencer when you shoot 12 volts to it for a short time. With a dead 6 volt battery in the tractor I have seen a 12 volt jump battery put on a tractor at a tractor pull and make the pulls without causing a problem. You wouldn't leave it connected after you were done though.
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Gerald J.
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton Co, IA
Points: 5636
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Posted: 29 Jun 2011 at 3:00pm |
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There can be bad consequences of jumping a 6 volt battery with a good 12 volt battery. The worse one is that the 6 volt battery can self disassemble... E.g. BLOW UP in your face covering you and the tractors with sulfuric acid accompanied by chunks of lead and plastic. Your clothes will fall off from the side towards the explosion being eaten by the acid. And your skin then is in peril. The 12 volt battery can contribute to the sound effects.
The bang can be slowed by using the cheapest thinnest wire in the jumper cables as possible, nothing like good 00 jumper cables, not even #4, better cheap #10 or 12.
Gerald J.
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wkpoor
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Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Location: Amanda, OH
Points: 825
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Posted: 29 Jun 2011 at 5:49pm |
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I agree with Dick L. 12V in correct polarity won't hurt anything. New jumper packs are 12/24V. The 24v posistion can really overcome a dead 12V battery well.
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Prairie City Ia
Points: 10508
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Posted: 29 Jun 2011 at 9:12pm |
 Gerald J. wrote:
There can be bad consequences of jumping a 6 volt battery with a good 12 volt battery. The worse one is that the 6 volt battery can self disassemble... E.g. BLOW UP in your face covering you and the tractors with sulfuric acid accompanied by chunks of lead and plastic. Your clothes will fall off from the side towards the explosion being eaten by the acid. And your skin then is in peril. The 12 volt battery can contribute to the sound effects.
The bang can be slowed by using the cheapest thinnest wire in the jumper cables as possible, nothing like good 00 jumper cables, not even #4, better cheap #10 or 12.
Gerald J.
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The only way that will happen is if there is a spark and enough hydrogen present. I measured a non regulated battery charger once and it was 18v. Jumping a 6v tractor with a 12v vehicle is perfectly safe. Done it more times than I can count.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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LouSWPA
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Clinton, Pa
Points: 24033
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Posted: 29 Jun 2011 at 9:29pm |
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No Brian, Gerald is right. An extremely low resistance, which a discharged battery could present, in conjunction with the 12 volt battery could result i9n currents high enough to quickly heatr up the 6volt to the point of self igniting the internal gases......that is why he is suggesting light gage jumper wire, as a poor mans current limiter. However, I personally equate that possibility right up there with fire/explosion while gassing up my lawn mower, life is a risk! But, again Gerald is right and his suggestion, along with my habbit of always throwing an old blanket, pair of coveralls, old coat or whatever over the battery being jumped.....no matter what battery I'm jumping is a good idea. I developed that habbit after my second battery explosion! One was a frozen battery, the other was a battery from a demolition derby car that had been damaged, and it arced when we jumped it.
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I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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Rich Steiner
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Clarion PA
Points: 87
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Posted: 05 Jul 2011 at 6:15am |
Well I found out what the problem was.... "you can't run an engine without gas"..... I put some gas in and she quit back fireing I still need to do some work on the ol girl though Rich
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redline
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Collins, IA
Points: 1013
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Posted: 05 Jul 2011 at 10:47am |
Rich Steiner wrote:
Well I found out what the problem was....
"you can't run an engine without gas".....
I put some gas in and she quit back fireing
I still need to do some work on the ol girl though
Rich |
I was hoping it would be a cheaper fix than putting gas in. But, at least you are up and running!
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If it weren't for the last minute, I wouldn't get anything done!
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Gerald J.
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton Co, IA
Points: 5636
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Posted: 05 Jul 2011 at 11:36am |
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Brian there will be sparks as bits of battery plate break off, right next to bubbles of hydrogen and oxygen from rapid charging in the electrolyte that are the perfect ratio for the best bang. While 2 parts hydrogen to 1 part oxygen is the perfect ratio, hydrogen will burn in air from less than 4% concentration to about 90% concentration. High currents in the battery, whether charging or discharging will cause dissociation of the water of the electrolyte which looks like boiling but its not hot or steam its bubbles of H and O read to burn.
I have a battery in my evidence collection that blew the top off because some active material got swapped from plate to plate right up on top and that shorted local action battery dissociated enough water it didn't have electrolyte to work with. My client looked in, saw no electrolyte above the plates so shook the battery which splashed electrolyte on that shorted cell less than a quarter inch across and it blew the lid off splashing his face with sulfuric acid and chunks of battery.
My dad used a model B Ford engine and aircraft generator for welding. For starting and ignition he borrowed the 6 volt battery from the family car. One Saturday he was welding at the vise on the work bench and heard a bang. That he didn't consider unusual as the B would do that occasionally, especially as he ran the throttle up and down with a button on the electrode holder to idle it when not welding. The 6 volt three brush generator had only a cutout, no voltage regulator and so was charging hard, current limited by the third brush. After a while he felt a breeze on his right leg and that caught his attention because he was wearinig bibs over pants. He found he had no right outside of either bib or pants. He shut down, and had a quick shower. He taped the side back on the battery and put it in the car and headed for town to Sears who replaced the battery under warrantee without questions (probably because it was closing time). And that battery wasn't even being abused with high voltage.
That 18 volt open circuit charger probably was current limited so that even with a short circuit it would limit the current to its rating otherwise on a low battery it would smoke the rectifier and the transformer.
A good 12 volt battery is capable of its cranking amps rating at about 10 volts, like 800 amps, 8 kilowatts, that's enough to burn off plate connections and wimpy jumper cables.
Point is, neither you nor the tractor benefits from a shower in sulfuric acid and battery bits. And overcharging a sick battery with twice rated voltage (and its the chemistry not the construction that sets the voltage) is hazardous.
Gerald J.
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