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DougG 
Orange Level
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Location: Mo
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 Topic: Last ORANGE AGCO off the line?
Posted: 31 Oct 2010 at 6:22pm |
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Seen a thread on AGTALK about this , Does anyone know when the last ORANGE AGCO will roll off the line and seal AGCO,S fate forever ? A dealer in Neb. was trying to sell it I believe to win a trip over to France to watch the END
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AllisChalmers37
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Joined: 11 Jul 2010
Location: London,KY
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Posted: 31 Oct 2010 at 6:26pm |
It will be the end of the ORANGE tractor and the only remaining piece of AC. But it will be the beginning of a wonderful and very eventful next couple of years for AGCO and MF. I hope they put a pillow under their butt so the crash they have in a couple of years won't hurt so bad ;)
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1937 WC, 1950 CA, 1959 D14, 1967 190XT, 2006 Ram 3500
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AllisFreak MN
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Joined: 07 Dec 2009
Location: Minnesota
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Posted: 31 Oct 2010 at 6:35pm |
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They don't deserve the pillow.
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'49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2
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Jordan(OH)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Celina, OH
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Posted: 31 Oct 2010 at 7:57pm |
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I'm thinking it has already been made.
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Lonn
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Joined: 16 Sep 2009
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Posted: 01 Nov 2010 at 6:24am |
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I would replace the pillow with a bed of nails and an anvil on top of the head.
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Prairie City Ia
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Posted: 02 Nov 2010 at 12:51pm |
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I guess one can only hope orange is not gone for good. Didn't Deutz eliminate orange for puke green?
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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nowversatile
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Joined: 15 Nov 2009
Location: Western Cornbel
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Posted: 02 Nov 2010 at 1:53pm |
 AllisChalmers37 wrote:
It will be the end of the ORANGE tractor and the only remaining piece of AC. But it will be the beginning of a wonderful and very eventful next couple of years for AGCO and MF. I hope they put a pillow under their butt so the crash they have in a couple of years won't hurt so bad ;) |
I think it has already started, won't need a couple of years. If anyone is considering the purchase of a new AGCO tractor, you need to seriously consider parts and service support here in NA. Considering sales have ground to a trickle, will be tough to justify major support efforts by corporate. Seriously! A trend that AgChem and the former Hesston have been following as well.
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tbran
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Paris Tn
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Posted: 02 Nov 2010 at 5:31pm |
Agco and MF are the same unit, if one has good local dealers , no problem. Agco holds high horsepower 5 and 10 year planning meetings regualrly as the Agco / Mf / Challenger units use parts from the Agco engine and Fendt powertrain . As a dealer I am not happy with the demise of orange paint in the least bit. But to demonize the whole company is counter productive to assuring continued support of the heritge lines that the old Agco saved from total destruction. Lots of things happen behind the closed doors . Agco does as good a job of providing and allowing others to provide parts and service information on heritage products as CNH or Deere ; I talk to competitive dealers and dual line dealers often , for us to resort to name calling and insults does not help our cause , trust me , they get it, they do get it. More later...
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cwhit
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Sigel IL
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Posted: 02 Nov 2010 at 5:37pm |
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Thanks tbran. Its always good to here from people in the know..Please keep us informed.
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Fred in Pa
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Posted: 02 Nov 2010 at 6:13pm |
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1985!!!!!!
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David Gibson (OH)
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Posted: 02 Nov 2010 at 6:23pm |
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LOL! Good answer Fred!
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tnac
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Tennessee
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Posted: 02 Nov 2010 at 8:12pm |
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Hmm sounds like you might know something tbran? I've bought som parts from your store in hopkinsville,......was very satisfied and your parts man was very helpful, btw.
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nowversatile
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Joined: 15 Nov 2009
Location: Western Cornbel
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Posted: 03 Nov 2010 at 9:23am |
tbran wrote:
Agco and MF are the same unit, if one has good local dealers , no problem. Agco holds high horsepower 5 and 10 year planning meetings regualrly as the Agco / Mf / Challenger units use parts from the Agco engine and Fendt powertrain . As a dealer I am not happy with the demise of orange paint in the least bit. But to demonize the whole company is counter productive to assuring continued support of the heritge lines that the old Agco saved from total destruction. Lots of things happen behind the closed doors . Agco does as good a job of providing and allowing others to provide parts and service information on heritage products as CNH or Deere ; I talk to competitive dealers and dual line dealers often , for us to resort to name calling and insults does not help our cause , trust me , they get it, they do get it. More later... |
tbran, thanks for your excellent post as usual. First, let me start by saying as painful as it is for us loyalists to Orange/Silver to see this tragedy happening, it is most tragic to see this happen to you and your counterparts as dealers. This has to be a tremendous stress. Speaking for myself only, my intent is to not demonize the whole company as there are a tremendous number of wonderfully talented and smart people still with AGCO that are as confused about this foolish move as the rest of us. Many of us recognize that it is this stubborn interloper at the top that is responsible for this move, along with a couple of his henchmen. The facts are that tractor sales are tanking - even before the official end of the Orange, What will it be in 2011 with no Orange? The big coops are dumping the yellow application equipment - its all changing to Green and Red. I drive by a couple of our larger CAT dealers on a occasional basis, last Row Crop MT series tractor on any of the lots was last spring. Obviously nothing happening. MF tractors automatically have a 20% lower tradein value than Green, Red and even Orange. Nobody wants them here in the western corn belt. Dealers here that sold a decent volume of Hesston hay tools (many NH dealers as well) have now stopped stocking the newly branded "MF" and have all NH or others have switched to Vermeer. The huge bright spot now is Gleaner, not much else.
With the newly formed AGCO company in 1990, many of us thought that there would be light at the end of the tunnel with the Orange tractor coming back and market share was on the rise again. This is what is going to be required again if AGCO intends to be a player in the NA market. Unfortunately, the BOD and Wall Street analysts seem to be asleep at the wheel and not understanding the changes that are being made and how they will effect the dynamics of the market going forward.
You state that AGCO has 5-10 year planning meetings for tractors. I can only hope and pray for the good of the company, shareholders and most importantly you as dealers that some level heads can prevail and get this back on track for NA. With last summers sale of the "AC energy corporation" the trademarks and naming rights for AC should be available. Some form of the Orange tractor -be it AC or not- will need to be brought back to NA or it will be slim pickins for some time to come. As you stated, more to come, I will be optimistically awaiting your "good news".
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ncrc5315
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Location: Nebraska
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Posted: 03 Nov 2010 at 11:01am |
I'm sure AGCO will do quite well with the MF brand, as it is still the number one brand in the world. In talking to an AGCO rep at Husker Harvest days, I was surprised to find out that MF out sold the AGCO line even here in the US. Although most of the MF tractors sold are smaller tractors, not the higher horsepower ones that are used in the midwest. Having said all that, my impression of AGCO dropping the orange paint tells me that they are not really interested in the north american market, and will be satisfied to take care of the smaller niche tractor market. If this wasn't true, then MF would have a 4WD. We are told that it is the same tractor, but I have my doubts about that as well. If the only difference is the paint, then why not keep painting an orange tractor? There has to be another difference that they are not telling us about. Our family has been farming with orange tractors since 1937. The two dealers that I work with have yet to sell a high horsepower MF, I'm not about to trade for a MF just to find out that there is no resale value. I've traded for two new CaseIH tractors and a CaseIH planter,. The gleaner combine will run one more season, but we have already tried several different brands of combines this past fall. The reason for going red, is the dealer is 20 miles closer to home. Like Martin Richenhagen, I had to make a business decision. The problem for AGCO is once they lose me, it will be all but impossible to get me back.
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ncrc5315
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Posted: 03 Nov 2010 at 11:09am |
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I see that the links taking you to the ACGO tractor site from the main AGCO site is gone.
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nowversatile
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Posted: 03 Nov 2010 at 8:17pm |
ncrc5315 wrote:
I'm sure AGCO will do quite well with the MF brand, as it is still the number one brand in the world. In talking to an AGCO rep at Husker Harvest days, I was surprised to find out that MF out sold the AGCO line even here in the US. Although most of the MF tractors sold are smaller tractors, not the higher horsepower ones that are used in the midwest. Having said all that, my impression of AGCO dropping the orange paint tells me that they are not really interested in the north american market, and will be satisfied to take care of the smaller niche tractor market. If this wasn't true, then MF would have a 4WD. We are told that it is the same tractor, but I have my doubts about that as well. If the only difference is the paint, then why not keep painting an orange tractor? There has to be another difference that they are not telling us about.
Our family has been farming with orange tractors since 1937. The two dealers that I work with have yet to sell a high horsepower MF, I'm not about to trade for a MF just to find out that there is no resale value. I've traded for two new CaseIH tractors and a CaseIH planter,. The gleaner combine will run one more season, but we have already tried several different brands of combines this past fall. The reason for going red, is the dealer is 20 miles closer to home. Like Martin Richenhagen, I had to make a business decision. The problem for AGCO is once they lose me, it will be all but impossible to get me back. |
You were misinformed about MF outselling Orange in NA. If you look at the glorified lawnmowers (compacts) that may be the case, but it would take a truckload of them to get close to one High Horsepower FWA. This is where the problem is. I have solid info that MF is/has been a distant third to Orange and Yellow (NA), and Orange still leads. Unfortunately, it is not a business decision, if it were, Orange would be the centerpiece brand in NA. The market place is speaking: You vill not tell me vhat I have to buy!
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Dave in il
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Posted: 03 Nov 2010 at 9:37pm |
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That's interesting MF selling more compact tractors than AGCO, didn't they stop making orange compact tractors a while ago? Our local dealer was selling the DT series like hot cakes up to last year, now he has a DT275 and a DT225 setting on the lot plus a red one, that have been there for nearly a year. Seems like the big Bueler 4wds are still moving though. To be honest, if I needed that kind of hp I'd still love to have either one of those orange tractors.
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TomYaz
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Posted: 04 Nov 2010 at 8:02am |
| nowversatile
You were misinformed about MF outselling Orange in NA. If you look at the glorified lawnmowers (compacts) that may be the case, but it would take a truckload of them to get close to one High Horsepower FWA. This is where the problem is. I have solid info that MF is/has been a distant third to Orange and Yellow (NA), and Orange still leads. Unfortunately, it is not a business decision, if it were, Orange would be the centerpiece brand in NA. The market place is speaking: You vill not tell me vhat I have to buy! [/QUOTE wrote:
If what you are saying is true, DESPITE the large orange tractors being a "dead man walking" brand, they are outselling the Red! Thats telling! Because if AGCO wisdom says MF Red will do fine in NA, the customers should be buying Red right now. What customer would buy a dead brand if the same tractor is available in the brand of the future???
Keep in mind also that AGCO admits small tractor sales in NA (Red) suck in right now, but large tractors for the "professional farmer" (uggh I despise that term) are doing fine.
With your inside info, those large tractors being sold are the soon to be go |
If what you are saying is true, DESPITE the large orange tractors being a "dead man walking" brand, they are outselling the Red! Thats telling! Because if AGCO wisdom says MF Red will do fine in NA, the customers should be buying Red right now. What customer would buy a dead brand if the same tractor is available in the brand of the future???
Keep in mind also that AGCO admits small tractor sales in NA (Red) suck in right now, but large tractors for the "professional farmer" (uggh I despise that term) are doing fine.
With your inside info, those large tractors being sold are the soon to be gone Orange. And the customers are not inclined to buy the Red version so far (again if your inside info is correct). Boy thats a BIG trainwreck waiting to happen when the orange stock is sold.
Agco had better be working on a plan B...If I was AGCO chief and wanted to "save face" and save my NA market..heres what I would do...
"Dear Public,
We think the move MF brand is still our best option, but we admit we handled it wrong.
To honor our long-time customers and our heritage, we are going to make a limited edition "Oliver" "White" and "Allis-Chalmers" versions of our MF tractors. We bought the naming rights to the Allis-Chalmers name. Limited avaialbility, Get em while their hot"
If this ploy works, make this "limited edition" not-so-limited due to "overwhelming demand" and save your NA market...
If the sales are lackluster, you now have a factual reason to defend getting rid of the orange...."we tried it for a time, customers dont care for orange anymore"
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Byron WC in SW Wi
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Posted: 04 Nov 2010 at 8:30am |
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I don't think they can save face with a ploy. They need a long term commitment to orange to get anyone back at this point. They've already tried a ploy with the heritage emblem.
I know people think this is a dead horse but every time AGCO shows up on this site it gets a ton of views. 3 out of 19 of the top views every have to do with AGCO shutting down orange. With so few posts on AGCO who could it get that many views? Personally I think AGCO is watching but I also think people are very interested whether they want to post or not.
Either way, I'm not an expert and can be slightly insane at time but I think AGCO is going down. Too many parallels to AC and Deutzs' demise.
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TomYaz
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Posted: 04 Nov 2010 at 8:36am |
Byron WC in SW Wi wrote:
I don't think they can save face with a ploy. They need a long term commitment to orange to get anyone back at this point. They've already tried a ploy with the heritage emblem.
I know people think this is a dead horse but every time AGCO shows up on this site it gets a ton of views. 3 out of 19 of the top views every have to do with AGCO shutting down orange. With so few posts on AGCO who could it get that many views? Personally I think AGCO is watching but I also think people are very interested whether they want to post or not.
Either way, I'm not an expert and can be slightly insane at time but I think AGCO is going down. Too many parallels to AC and Deutzs' demise.
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Yah, you may be right. Wish it wasnt so... I too wonder to what extant the brass goes to this forum. You know, Darrin should be able to see what networks are checking in.
From time to time I see that someone from AGCO's network shows up on my site statistics..
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smokey
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Posted: 04 Nov 2010 at 10:05am |
I don't know all the facts about the topic but, But I have a thought if they take MF's big frame and put the hood and grill design on it like the 200,210,220 and paint them orange their off and running baby,
My 2 cents worth
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