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Swingline 
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Joined: 20 Jun 2023
Location: Old Hickory TN
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 Topic: Torque converter fluid into transmission
Posted: 20 Jun 2023 at 4:27pm |
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HI, I just joined this forum, and I have never used one before, so I have no idea if I'm doing this properly. I have a 655 that torque converter fluid is getting into the transmission. I just got the machine and put new steering clutches and brakes in it. Any Idea on how its getting into the transmission.
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Codger
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Posted: 20 Jun 2023 at 7:30pm |
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Is this a Tractor Loader Backhoe, or loader only?
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A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
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Swingline
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Posted: 20 Jun 2023 at 9:32pm |
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Loader backhoe
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Codger
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Posted: 21 Jun 2023 at 5:14am |
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Been a long time since I've seen one of those so will take some digging. What is the serial number of the tractor?
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A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
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Codger
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Posted: 21 Jun 2023 at 5:38am |
I think the last one of the type I've seen was over 40 years ago and it had a couple years on it then.....
In this photo I think the oil seal shown as #10 on the transmission main shaft has failed as it presses into housing shown as #13. IIRC this seals the torque converter housing from the transmission:
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A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
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Swingline
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Posted: 21 Jun 2023 at 7:55am |
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that makes sense. Any idea what would cause the seal to fail? Looking at the machine it looks like a major job to replace that seal.
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Codger
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Posted: 21 Jun 2023 at 8:05am |
 Swingline wrote:
that makes sense. Any idea what would cause the seal to fail? Looking at the machine it looks like a major job to replace that seal. |
Age and normal wear. You will need to remove the transmission from the tractor.
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A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
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Swingline
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Posted: 21 Jun 2023 at 8:30am |
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Thanks for you help. I'm not sure I want to tackle that project. I was going to take it to my farm in Indiana to do odd jobs on the farm......tile repair , digging out rocks stumps nothing heavy duty. I think I may sell it instead.
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Codger
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Posted: 21 Jun 2023 at 8:46am |
I put steering clutches in one years ago and everything is "tight" in those little tractors. Quite handy given the size but limited also because of the same. Based on the HD-4 series tractor and liked to bust the boom and swing post up when pounding on stumps for instance. Plumbers loved them for trenching if the need was wider than a chain trencher provided and they had more power.
Post a photo if able.
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A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
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Swingline
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Posted: 21 Jun 2023 at 5:24pm |
How long do you think it would take to put the seal in? I have a well equipped shop and fork lift. I'm really undecided on putting the seal in. I'm 70 years old and not as strong as I used to be. Would the seal leaking have anything to do with low shuttle clutch pressure? The shuttle pump pressure going in to the shuttle valve is around 1000PSI but coming out of the shuttle shift spool is 50psi @ full throttle ( I put a T in to the line going to the shuttle clutch to check the out put pressure.) I have not a dead end the pressure check coming out of the valve.
I will post a picture. I have the backhoe off of it now.
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Codger
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Posted: 21 Jun 2023 at 5:45pm |
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The seal replacement is not difficult after the trans is removed. I can't answer for pressures and such as don't have a service manual for that series and setup. Is your shuttle weak, or slow to engage? How fast is the torque converter filling the transmission?
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A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
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Swingline
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Posted: 21 Jun 2023 at 9:32pm |
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Weak and slow. in just a few minutes the torque fluid is off the stick.
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Swingline
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Posted: 21 Jun 2023 at 9:36pm |
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I wish knew if the shuttle clutch is good? I f I do replace the seal it may be a good time to rebuild the shuttle clutch. I have never done one. Amy idea on cost to rebuild one?
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Codger
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Posted: 22 Jun 2023 at 7:59am |
[QUOTE=Swingline]I wish knew if the shuttle clutch is good? I f I do replace the seal it may be a good time to rebuild the shuttle clutch. I have never done one. Amy idea on cost to rebuild one?[/QUOTE
Unfortunately no as far as cost. I have never done one myself. My experience is limited to steering and undercarriage work as far as tracked construction machinery. Any time you have something broken open it is a good time to evaluate anything easily accessed, or rebuildable at that time. Not really a lot to a shuttle clutch from what I've seen, but the slow engagement, weak application pressure, and passing fluid tends to lead me to believe this is the correct area to address. It sounds as if your shuttle application pressure is bleeding off into the transmission case.
I would think it would be best to block the loader up, and remove the engine to gain access. I don't remember any driveshaft in the tractor as close coupled, but it's been a long time. IIRC it would be difficult to drop the transmission out the bottom with the engine, and finals housing in place, if even possible. Factory A-C, or F-A branded parts are going to be a crap shoot but I have acquaintances who can reline friction discs and others to supply rubber parts who help me out when needed.
I've only seen the one of those small tractors myself as they were not built in Springfield, but rather on the Agriculture side of A-C IIRC. The one I worked on belonged to an electrician/farmer and it worked well for him. Lot's of use from it in those days and is seldom broke. I did a lot of welding on the backhoe portion however.....
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A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 22 Jun 2023 at 12:54pm |
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Trying to figure out the lineup , now torque converter would be first then shuttle clutch , then transmission . So it seems leaking shuttle pack would cause pressure into transmission and not converter fluid traveling to transmission .
Thought the housing all these components were in also had some way to inspect it .
HD4 , 653 , 655 I thought were all industrial crawlers but updates .
Now doesn't the 655 have pedal steer rather than levers and could that hyd fluid being diverted to transmission somehow ?
If machine is moving then converter has oil supply , if shuttle works , then the clutches have hyd pressure - i thought another post here had the pressure listed to and from clutch pack in it .
Hmmm- why i sold my HD4 and kept HD5 and have AC715 TLB rather than hoe on the HD4 - but kept the AC 650 backhoe that was on the HD4 as a attachment as cylinders fit onto the 715
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Swingline
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Posted: 22 Jun 2023 at 6:53pm |
The clutch pack is in the torque converter housing. I can pull the breather tube and you can see the fluid blowing into the transmission. I can't find an inspection plate on torque converter housing? (I'll look again) I had not thought about pulling the engine to get to the transmission....that would be a shorter putt. The power steering cylinders and plumbing is all external. Thought....Maybe one of the lines going to the clutch pack is broke inside the housing???? When I engage the shuttle shifter I can hear the motor surge but still only get 80 psi at full throttle going to the clutch pack. Makes me think I got a line leak inside the housing ???? I don't know how to verify that? You defiantly got my wheels turning now! Thanks for the thoughts.
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orangeman
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Posted: 23 Jun 2023 at 10:06am |
Swingline- With respect to the pump pressure issue, skim down a bit to find the topic of shuttle pump posted by Randleky. In that post you will the factory specifications posted on pump pressures.
HTH's ~ Orangeman
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