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Thad in AR. 
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 Topic: Hunting a new reloading manual.
Posted: 03 Feb 2021 at 7:00am |
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My old stand by Lee is outdated to a lot of modern powders.
Any recommendations for a new modern manual?
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IBWD MIke
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Posted: 03 Feb 2021 at 9:07am |
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I always liked Nosler bullets and the manuals are pretty good too. I'm not as up on these things as I used to be though. Any of the major bullet manufacturers should have good info.
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modirt
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Posted: 03 Feb 2021 at 9:47am |
I was recently on Sierra's website and they are even out of reloading manuals. Out of stock? How hard could that be?
Something else is going on there. Pretty sure there are printers in MO who would whip up a couple thousand manuals with no sweat.
Or they may be in the process of updating, and didn't want to produce old manuals then come out with a new replacement.
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Creek Jenkins
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Posted: 03 Feb 2021 at 10:38am |
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I have found Sierra has a really good manual, mine is getting a bit old so will have to update one of these days as mine doesn't have some of the newer powders. Also have found that my older RCBS and Lyman manuals have quite a bit hotter loads than shown in some of the new manuals. My standard .30-06 load with IMR 4350 is quite a bit higher than the max shown in some new manuals - my old RCBS manual has it as 2 or 2.5 grains short of max. So manuals are more conservative in general it seems. The old standby still works - start low and work your way up, watch your primers, watch your brass for high pressure signs. I have found very few max loads that are also the most accurate. Loading for an AR action is a bit different as by the time your primers are showing pressure you are most likely past the max. I load in the same caliber for my Ruger No. 1 and an AR15 Varminter, the AR15 load is a fair bit less than the No. 1 as it cannot take the pressure and operate reliably.
I did order a Hodgdon powder loading manual for my handguns - I think it was free - and that had some excellent loads for a wide range of powders for my wheelguns. I have quite a bit of Red Dot left over from my shotgun loading days and I was surprised to find a use for it in some 45 Colt loads. Not an ideal load but with the shortage of everything these days it allows me to keep loading.
cheers,
Creek
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Have spacesuit, will travel
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IBWD MIke
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Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 10:49am |
Creek, there are two reasons the manuals have gotten more conservative over time; 1) Far greater accuracy measuring pressure. The old copper units didn't always reflect what happened. A quick high spike that fell off fast wouldn't crush the copper like a longer smoother one would. Electronic measuring in PSI is way more accurate.
2) LIABILITY, the big one! No one wants to get sued because someone's gun blew up.
I have an old Speer manual, from the 50's probably, compare it to today's manuals, it will blow your mind!
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Creek Jenkins
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Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 11:47am |
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I agree with you Mike, on both points. We measure pressure here at my work for some engine flows and electronic transducers that were trash 20 years ago have come along way and the new stuff produces pretty good results.
Liability is probably the no. 1 reason - have to keep lawyers employed I guess!
When I started loading for my ARs I had a helms of a time trying to find a way to tell when you have reached or exceeded max pressure. Finally found someone -on AR15.com I think it was- that told me how he did it. Everyone is very worried about liabilty, and for good reason.
I bought a Contender back in the 80's and picked up a special Contender (and I think Ruger Blackhawk?) loading manual that gave hotter .44 Mag loads for the stronger actions. I've used some of those loads over the years, but the new books are a lot lower, even the "Contender only" sections.
I'm nearly out of some primers so reloading data is going to be academic pretty soon. Can't find any in stock anywhere, not even any promises.
cheers,
Creek
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Have spacesuit, will travel
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IBWD MIke
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Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 1:13pm |
Creek, I have primers for what I do, even sold 2000 209's recently. Kept enough to keep me going a long time at the rate I'm shooting these days.
People who know me know I've got rifle and pistol primers and are hounding me for them. Don't have enough of either to let go of them even at current prices!
Stopped at Sportsman's outfitters in Ankeny yesterday, they had a sign, 100 primers/customer/visit. They had NONE in stock!
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Ted J
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Posted: 05 Feb 2021 at 9:39pm |
I've got about 20 different manuals and my son got me a new one for Christmas that has all the NEW loads. Only because all of my 'old' manuals didn't have any loads for his new AAC300blackout. You DON'T have to have a manual guys. Just go to the site of whomever makes your powder and get the loads. I use a LOT of Hodgdon powders and you can look up loads for whatever you want. Then just print them off,,,,,,,,,,and in the words of Jackie Gleason,,,,,then it's 'away we go'. It's easier that way, you don't have to buy reloading manuals and everything is up to date! Give it a try...
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 06 Feb 2021 at 4:42am |
 Ted J wrote:
I've got about 20 different manuals and my son got me a new one for Christmas that has all the NEW loads. Only because all of my 'old' manuals didn't have any loads for his new AAC300blackout. You DON'T have to have a manual guys. Just go to the site of whomever makes your powder and get the loads. I use a LOT of Hodgdon powders and you can look up loads for whatever you want. Then just print them off,,,,,,,,,,and in the words of Jackie Gleason,,,,,then it's 'away we go'. It's easier that way, you don't have to buy reloading manuals and everything is up to date! Give it a try...
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I think you’re correct. Right now I’m loading 223 with TAC Based on the paperwork that came with the dies. As powder comes available I may have to change things a little.
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JW in MO
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Posted: 06 Feb 2021 at 7:17am |
Ted J wrote:
Just go to the site of whomever makes your powder and get the loads. I use a LOT of Hodgdon powders and you can look up loads for whatever you want. Then just print them off,,,,,,,,,,and in the words of Jackie Gleason,,,,,then it's 'away we go'. It's easier that way, you don't have to buy reloading manuals and everything is up to date! Give it a try...
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Yup, keep my old manuals for nostalgia, print off what I need and easier to find.
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Maximum use of available resources!
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modirt
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Posted: 06 Feb 2021 at 9:39am |
OK, on a whim, I checked with IMR site on powders for some weapons I'm familiar with. And they did have loads, etc, but only gave one primer (for the load I was looking at, it was a Remington Primer).
What if all you have is CCI or Federal primers....not the only one designated in that load?
Do other online manuals allow you to also select the primer in addition to caliber, powder and bullet?
BTW, I checked and it seems many of them also have a free reloading manual App for a smart phone. I wouldn't use it, but some might.
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modirt
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Posted: 06 Feb 2021 at 10:07am |
You guys who do a lot of loading will smile (or frown) at this.
My
sister spent some time during Holidays with mom at the farm, and
decided it was time to start cleaning out the house. Among other things,
found some stuff in what was the farm's ammo dump (my old bedroom),
which was given to me to deal with.
Going through several boxes of old brass.....found this:
Opened the box and was relieved to find only empty brass.
Don't know what inspired him to try his hand at reloading, as he was not an avid shooter. Mostly used a big bore rifle to shoot stuff what needed kill'n, like coyotes and such. Would have taken him 2 years to go through a box of factory ammo.
Also don't remember where he got the press or where it is now. Found some reloading components for his rifle, but no press. I do remember him explaining it to me, and remember it being way harder and more complicated than reloading shotgun shells. That was my job and I could turn out 4 boxes a night.....and I wasn't even in high school yet.
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Ted J
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Posted: 06 Feb 2021 at 8:43pm |
modirt wrote:
OK, on a whim, I checked with IMR site on powders for some weapons I'm familiar with. And they did have loads, etc, but only gave one primer (for the load I was looking at, it was a Remington Primer).
What if all you have is CCI or Federal primers....not the only one designated in that load?
Do other online manuals allow you to also select the primer in addition to caliber, powder and bullet?
BTW, I checked and it seems many of them also have a free reloading manual App for a smart phone. I wouldn't use it, but some might.
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The primer isn't that important. Don't get me wrong, they do make a difference, but seeing as you are building a load, you use your primer, the powder they have listed, bullet and brass. Brass is also interchangeable. You start low on the powder and go upward. CCI and Remington I've interchanged with to no problems. The Federals seem to be a little hotter to me. There must be a place on the net that shows how they are different? You just have to go slow.
Thanks for the tip on the App for a smart phone. I'll have to take a look at that! I can't get internet at the farm and so I have to look stuff up and print it off before I go up. With the phone app, I wouldn't have to do that. By the way, IMR is owned by Hodgdon, my favorite powders.
Be SAFE, CAREFUL and DOUBLE CHECK EVERYTHING! You don't get a second chance very often on an "OOPS"...
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
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ocharry
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Posted: 06 Feb 2021 at 8:55pm |
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Hi mo...
If you change out the primer...say from Remington to CCI....just back off the powder charge and work up...watch for pressure signs as normal....you will be fine
Just start low and work up....kinda what you should be doing anyway
Also...hodgden makes a paper manual... Kinda like a magazine....most all the latest stuff....new one every year...you can find them in the magazine rack about anywhere that has gun magazines...they should be coming out with a new one soon...next month or so...they dont last long...they have good loading info for rifle and pistol...give it a look
Yeah things are crazy out there...glad I have a good stock..lol
Ocharry
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ocharry
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Posted: 06 Feb 2021 at 10:15pm |
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I was just on midsouth's web sight...they have the new 2021 hodgden load manual...magazine...$9.99
So they might be on the magazine stands now
Ocharry
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 6:13am |
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Something I’ve noticed, starting loads seem to be a bit conservative compared to a few years back. Have powders/components changed or is it just a safety thing?
I’m as nervous about an under charge as an over charge.
I don’t tend to experiment a lot. I find a powder for a certain bullet and start there. After I get that load worked up I stick with it. Always checking signs of course.
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modirt
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Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 7:21am |
Not knowing where things are going, all aspects of sourcing ammunition has me concerned. Warned my kid when he bought his rifle he ought to lay in a stock of reloading supplies......especially primers.....as when ammunition got scarce, the weapon he was so proud of was gonna become just a fancy club. He didn't, but out of curiosity, I bought several boxes of factory for his weapon to try myself......and never did. So he/we have that in reserve.
Talked to a nephew a few weeks back, and last year he bought a 6.5 Creedmore......didn't buy ammo to feed it, and all he has now is a fancy club.
So unless and until things start turning around......even reloading is going go get dicey. Spent part of yesterday looking at various loads for some calibers I'm familiar with and quickly came to the conclusion all those loads were developed during times of plenty......like when you could walk into gun shop or go online and order Primer X,Y or Z.......order bullets and order powder of your choice. Not so today. Every single item is now "out of stock", back ordered or discontinued.
So if it was me, and I still had makings, I'd be slowing things down to a crawl on any recreational shooting. What you have now may be all you are gonna get for awhile. Maybe a long time.
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modirt
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Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 7:24am |
Also, while snooping around, found that Nosler and Speer websites had the best load data. Sometimes as many as 10 to 15 different loads for a single caliber/bullet.
Have also concluded that reloading could be a mixed bag. Opportunity to get the very best loads for a particular weapon, and opportunity to really screw up and do some damage.
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DMiller
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Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 7:56am |
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I will actually default to heavier slower burn rate powder loads as Light loads tend to more rapidly burn and BANG rather than BOOM, US Mil loads are lighter to cause more energy at the bolt initially to chamber another round for the Full Auto actions, 7.62x51NATO are some of the most severe I ever fired and really tough on the Mauser Rechamber. Did a Bullet Pull and inspected charge loads on the ones I had, were 2/3 of a commercial .308 and a different burn rate.
Edited by DMiller - 07 Feb 2021 at 7:58am
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 8:09am |
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A few weeks back I got a very good deal on a RCBS pro 2000 deluxe reloading kit.
The price tag on the box was $950.00 and I’ve recently seen them sell on EBay for over $1500.00
I can’t get she’ll plates. It’s just an over priced boat anchor as it stands.
RCBS is based in CA and shut down.
I’ll not over pay for shell plates.
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modirt
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Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 4:32pm |
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RCBS is shut down? As in temp for some whacky reason or another or as in permanent?
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 4:47pm |
modirt wrote:
RCBS is shut down? As in temp for some whacky reason or another or as in permanent?
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From COVID
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modirt
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Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 5:02pm |
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Didn't realize RCBS was in Oroville. They need to get out of that place before the dam breaks.......or CA confiscates everything.
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 5:18pm |
modirt wrote:
Didn't realize RCBS was in Oroville. They need to get out of that place before the dam breaks.......or CA confiscates everything.
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I had no idea til I started looking for shell plates. Worst part is, right after I bought it the guy that sold it to me sent me a link with the shell plates. They were all in stock. By the time I was ready to order every company that sells RCBS was out of the 9mm and 223 shell plates. Dumb on my part.
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ocharry
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Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 7:13pm |
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Thad...unless you already had or have the dies you need you are kinda out of luck there too....
I got lucky and found some 9mm dies for my daughter...but that was back in November..so everything is out at everyplace
I have had 3 boxes of sierra 130gr game changer 6.5 hunting bullets on order from midsouth for a month now...I dont need them...luckily but I thought I would place the order since they let me back order...just to get in line...dont know when or if I will get them but I'm in line
This stuff is crazy...NO body local has anything...including guns..long or short does not matter to much...been shooting and loading for many years and have seen ups and downs .... But this is unreal
Ocharry
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DMiller
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Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 7:19pm |
A few guys I know are dropping FFLs, tired of the game and tired of not making much money. Nobody has weapons as so many are buying figuring on a Sleepy Creepy Joe confiscation or ban EO.
All too many are burying them in the attics and inside walls or just buying for the eventual rioters headed out to loot and pillage.
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modirt
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Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 7:30pm |
I'm still curious where everything is going, since nobody seems to have anything, while at the same time, folks making it claim to be setting records with production runs. The two don't add up.
My guess is hoarding and a black market. All kinds of stuff is available on places like gunbroker.....at very high prices.
My solution has been for the folks making it to take all marketing in house. They all have websites they market through, yet the folks making it don't have stock either? That is messed up.
Quit shipping it and start selling it in house. If anybody is to make a windfall, ought to be the folks making it so they can expand shifts or factories. Not the hoarders and black market. At least until things settle down.
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modirt
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Posted: 07 Feb 2021 at 7:36pm |
Interesting tidbit......Justice with Judge Jeanine.........segment with Lara Logan on the border. Video taken on the border......gunshots sounded like firecrackers on the 4th of July at the city park. Comment was......."just another night at a border town". They don't seem to be running short of ammo.
Neither do the thugs in Chicago, St. Louis or any of the other big city shooting galleries.
Maybe that's where it goes?
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festus51
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Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 8:04pm |
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You know that you can type in any powder brand and then the number and get a reloading guide on the internet.
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We the unwilling Led by the unqualified Doing the impossible for the Ungrateful
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