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Rowland49 
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Joined: 03 Nov 2015
Location: Arizona
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 Topic: Roosa Master Injector Pump Problem
Posted: 10 Jan 2018 at 8:57pm |
I have an Allis Chalmers 35KW generator with the D-262 diesel engine, and Roosa Master injection pump model # DBGFC 637-2CM. I have been refurbishing the generator and I've been using a 5 gallon fuel can as a temporary fuel supply. Between run sessions, I have been crimping off the end of the supply line and the return fuel line to keep crud out of them.
I went to start the engine today and it ran for about a minute when it began to smoke a little and then finally quit as if it were running out of fuel. Not unusual after it had not been running for awhile. I restarted the engine and it ran for about 30 or 40 seconds and quit. I went back over the lines and discovered that I had forgot to take the tie wrap off the end of the return fuel line, and when I cut the tie wrap off, there was quite a bit of pressure built up in the line as one would expect.
When I went to restart the engine after opening the return line, it ran for about 20 seconds and quit. I tried to restart the engine and found out it would try to run if I worked the primer pump, but it would not come up to the full 1800 rpms, and just ran along at a low rpm. When I stopped the priming, the engine quit. I then noticed that there was fuel leaking from some where under the injection pump and couldn't tell if it was coming from somewhere on the back side of the pump, or leaking from a couple of fittings on the bottom of the pump.
When I tried to pump fuel through the injection pump with the primer, the fuel would not come through the return line, and there was fuel leaking again from under the pump. I realized I had screwed the pooch. The neighbors got me stopped before my head banging on the garage wall reached a concussion.
I would really appreciate any help from folks experienced with this pump to give me their best guess on how badly I messed it up, and if there are parts or an injector shop available that could do the repairs.
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DiyDave
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Gambrills, MD
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Posted: 11 Jan 2018 at 5:11am |
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Just a guess, but I'd say priming too much blew a seal in the lift pump. lift pump is usually the culprit, in these pumps. it has carbon vanes in it, which when worn, cause the symptoms, you describe. Cheap fix is to plumb an electric pump, between last filter, and pump input, but if you have a leak, that ship has passed. I think there are some shops out there, that still service these pumps. Time to go googling...
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darrel in ND
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Posted: 11 Jan 2018 at 6:40am |
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Send a PM to inj pump Ed, and he'll be able to tell you what's wrong. He may check in here some time soon, and answer here also. Darrel
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Tad Wicks
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Location: Shandon, CA
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Posted: 11 Jan 2018 at 11:12am |
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Check the fitting coming out of the top of the pump, it has a little glass ball and a spring that regulates pressure in the pump housing, make sure it is open, it usually gets plugged up with the remnants of destroyed shock ring. The leaks on the bottom? could be from several places, make sure you have not left off an injection line washer, by the way if you do leave a washer off and over tighten it you can run the line bolt into the head, seize the pump and twist off the drive shaft. The head to body O ring is suspect but I have never seen one fail. There are several O rings in the advance and charge pump pressure regulator as well. I don't know much but may be this will help. Tad
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 11 Jan 2018 at 5:16pm |
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sounds like a classic case of plugged return due to the flex ring being broken down. Happen a lot when these old pumps sit for a long time, and then are brought back to life. The reason it starts leaking is now the whole housing is exposed to 75 psi of pressure instead of the 5 psi that would be normal. Clean the return fitting out and see if it keeps running. Will be time for a pump freshening.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Rowland49
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Location: Arizona
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Posted: 11 Jan 2018 at 8:13pm |
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Thanks for the reply, Tad. I'll check the fitting on the top of the pump. The pump fittings have not been disturbed and my problem started when I forgot to un-crimp the end of the return fuel line that goes into the tank. I've been running the generator a couple of times a month for about five years, and the problem began when I started the engine and it built up pressure in the return line because I forgot to open it up after being crimped closed to keep debris out of it between run sessions.
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Rowland49
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Posted: 11 Jan 2018 at 8:27pm |
Thanks for the reply, Ed. I've been exercising the generator for about 20 minutes a couple of times a month for the last five years and it has been running fine. The problem occurred when I screwed up and forgot to open the end of the return fuel line which I seal off after each run to keep debris out of it.
When I went to run it this time, the generator ran for about a minute and then stopped as if it had run out of fuel. It sometimes did this till all the air had worked its way out of the system so I was used to having to restart it a couple of times and then it would continue to run with no problems. I didn't realize I had screwed up until it had stopped as if it had run out of fuel after the third restart and I started going over all the fittings and fuel lines and found the return line was crimped shut. Consequently, it had been trying to return fuel and couldn't during the three times it had started and then stalled.
I'll take the return fitting off and see if there is any debris in that fitting. If that doesn't clear up the problem, Ed, do you know of anyone that does repair work on these pumps?
Edited by Rowland49 - 11 Jan 2018 at 8:32pm
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Rowland49
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Posted: 11 Jan 2018 at 8:28pm |
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DIY Dave and Darrel, thanks for the suggestions.
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 12 Jan 2018 at 8:07am |
 Rowland49 wrote:
Thanks for the reply, Ed. I've been exercising the generator for about 20 minutes a couple of times a month for the last five years and it has been running fine. The problem occurred when I screwed up and forgot to open the end of the return fuel line which I seal off after each run to keep debris out of it.
When I went to run it this time, the generator ran for about a minute and then stopped as if it had run out of fuel. It sometimes did this till all the air had worked its way out of the system so I was used to having to restart it a couple of times and then it would continue to run with no problems. I didn't realize I had screwed up until it had stopped as if it had run out of fuel after the third restart and I started going over all the fittings and fuel lines and found the return line was crimped shut. Consequently, it had been trying to return fuel and couldn't during the three times it had started and then stalled.
I'll take the return fitting off and see if there is any debris in that fitting. If that doesn't clear up the problem, Ed, do you know of anyone that does repair work on these pumps?
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as a matter of fact I do, Me! lol! Maybe your return hose got a flap inside from pinching with the pliers. The down fall is if the pump hasn't been serviced in a long time, the flex ring will begin breaking down, and need to be serviced.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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JohnCO
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Posted: 12 Jan 2018 at 9:44pm |
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Kind of off the thread but there is a pump for a 190 for sale on the Denver CL, $600. The thing is there is no drive shaft on it. Unless I'm mistaken, the drive shaft should stick out beyond the mounting flange, shouldn't it?
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"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
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DMiller
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
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Posted: 13 Jan 2018 at 6:56am |
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On the 180-220 series you take the pump Off the shaft when removing, the shaft stays on the engine.
When I pulled mine for rebuild I received the two umbrella seals for the shaft to replace upon reinstall. Makes it easy to get back on in time just have to set the timing marks before remove.
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Tad Wicks
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Posted: 13 Jan 2018 at 1:09pm |
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Some Roosa Masters do have a shaft that the gear must be removed, as DMiller pointed out, this is not one of them. The last Stanadyne kit that I bought the new umbrella seals were so crappy they would not even slide up the installation tool without breaking I had to remove the old seals from another tractor I was working on at the time so I could get the one running, it was needed, don't like doing things that way but in a pinch, do what you gotta do. The old ones worked great, took them off one shaft and put them on another, so something has changed. I really don't know why they have done nothing about the crappy drive ring, they don't last near like they used to, may be it is the new and improved diesel. The pumps used on the 6.2, 6.5, 6.9 and 7.3 all did away with it and substituted a steel and spring replacement so no more problem with the drive ring. Tad
Edited by Tad Wicks - 13 Jan 2018 at 1:12pm
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 14 Jan 2018 at 11:17am |
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The cup seals in the aftermarket kits are thinner than genuine Stanadyne seals.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Coke
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Posted: 01 Oct 2018 at 9:27am |
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Ed,
How much does a rebuild run? I got a D262 with a drip from the underside of the injection pump? Thanks.
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 08 Oct 2018 at 5:37pm |
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pm me for pricing estimates.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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