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Play Farmer 
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Joined: 13 Jan 2016
Location: NNY
Points: 732
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 Topic: Allis G - I need some help please.
Posted: 04 Sep 2016 at 7:49am |
Good morning. The short version of a long story is I have my Dads old Allis G back in my garage. It's not mine, I'm helping the current owner get it running again. Dad passed away in 2011, his fleet was "auctioned" off (I say auctioned, the auctioneer was and still is a scumbag lying thief POS, but thats a story for another time).
Anyway...just checking the basics, it has no spark. The wires leading to and from the switches - and every other wire, are bad, I have no idea if the switches themselves are good. My first order of business is to run new wires throughout.
Here is where it gets a bit odd. The tractor has an 8 volt battery in it. I'm no G expert, but isn't this a 6 volt tractor? Do I need to get that battery out now or should it be OK? I can't think it would be but maybe???
The on/off switch should be easy to test, what is the best way to test the low charge/lights/high charge switch?
Any help, insight, information, pointers, etc you guys can offer is certainly appreciated.
The current owner is a good guy and being Dads old G just makes it that much better. I'd sure like to see it running again.
Edited by Play Farmer - 04 Sep 2016 at 7:49am
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
Points: 24781
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Posted: 04 Sep 2016 at 8:52am |
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The use of an 8 volt battery is a 'bad bodge', a 'cheat'.....
Depending on what you and the new owner want there are 2 GOOD options.
1) go back to 6 volt battery, it WAS the original setup. If you do, be SURE to buy big, fat battery cables NOT the wimpy 12 volt ones. Think ARC Welder cable fat size NOT thin pencil size. If using 6 volt battey, the generator should be checked out .
2) go 12 volt. You'll need another ballast resistor or a TRUE 12 volt coil. Going 12V allows for a small 12 alternator and 12V lights... though NOT 'original'.
In either case, either buy a new wiring harness from Steve@B&B or make your own. Replace 100% of the wiring ! If you don't , you'll waste HOURS trying figure out why 'it don't start'....BTDT....
Hope this helps
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Dusty MI
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Charlotte, Mi
Points: 5060
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Posted: 04 Sep 2016 at 8:54am |
The 8 volt battery was often used when a the compression was increased in a 6 volt engine, it's a bit much for the little G but it should work OK. The 6 volt generator will most likely keep it up.
Dusty
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917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"
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DanD
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: WI
Points: 856
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Posted: 04 Sep 2016 at 9:02am |
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8 volt battery is ok. Supposed to help crank a little faster and makes lights burn out more quickly but is ok for now. All of my 6 volt tractors have 6 volt batteries with adequate cables. Have to move twice as much current at 6 volts compared to 12 to do the same work. The light switch should have no effect on the spark. Do the lights not come on when you pull it out? Does the generator charge?
The last time my G had no spark I just had to file the points and that fixed it. It had been sitting for a long time and apparently the points got corroded. Check the voltage on the little wire between the coil and the points. If correct it should jump up and down as points open and close. If it stays on steady give the points a quick file.
Turn on your ignition switch and check for voltage upstream of the coil too. This will test your ignition switch. Keep us posted.
Edited by DanD - 04 Sep 2016 at 9:06am
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DSeries4
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Points: 7539
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Posted: 04 Sep 2016 at 9:37am |
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An 8 volt battery often gets used as a cheap fix to get the engine started when the electrical system gets neglected. I am with Jay - either go back to 6 or switch to 12 volts. From there, put a new wiring harness on - it probably needs it after 60 some years. From there, get an appropriate coil, check the points and condensor, plugs and wires.
I converted mine to 12 volts when I got it, fires right up with no problems. Local auto shop converted the 6 volt generator to 12.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '63 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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Gerald J.
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton Co, IA
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Posted: 04 Sep 2016 at 10:58am |
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The main benefit of an 8 volt battery is greater tolerance for corrosion of battery posts and connectors. In a 6 volt system they need cleaning twice a year. Generally a 3 brush generator with only a cutout will charge an 8 volt battery, and even overcharge it like it can overcharge a 6 volt battery. Changing to a regulator is a leap forward for battery life.
Lamps have significantly shorter lives on 8 volts than on 6 volts. Points and coils suffer fro the higher voltage too, running hotter and so not lasting as long.
Gerald J.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: NW Illinois
Points: 22825
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Posted: 04 Sep 2016 at 3:10pm |
Stolen from ytmag. The Resistor Light Switch
The purpose of your light switch is reduce or increase the "amount of ground" (or resistance to ground)
of the 3rd brush when the lights are on or when the operator knows that full charge is needed. The resistance it
provides will determine the output of the generator. When the light switch is on or in high charge position, the
third brush is grounded and the charge will be at its maximum. When it is off (or in low charge position), it still
is grounded but in a "limited" fashion by the presence of a resistor. Some switches provide multiple
levels of resistance.
If the resistance is wrong the system will not work correctly. An open in the resistor will keep the generator
from charging the battery. Likewise resistance from rusty, dirty, and broken-wire connections will alter the charging
level. It is important that a clean connection from ground to the 3rd brush be provided to achieve high charge.
Here is where the expensive VOM is useful to measure the resistance of the switch and wiring? Of course another
option is to replace the switch and wires if charging problems are observed and the generator and cutout are known
to be good.
One other note on the resistor light switch. It is a dual function switch, one being the control of the 3rd
brush and the other providing 6 volts to the lights. It is important that these functions are not confused for
obvious reasons but if the wrong leads get connected or the switch is internally shorted, the system will be completely
dysfunctional and will hopefully blow the fuse. Check your manual and test the light circuit side of the switch.
If the hot side (that is supposed to run to the lights) shows that it is grounded, the switch is likely bad.
Here is an schematic of the field resistor circuit of a simple resistor light switch.
An example of the simplest switch would be the type used on the AC B and its relatives.
- When the switch is pushed all the way in (you might call this "off"), the resistor is in the circuit
providing "a low quantity" of ground to the 3rd brush, charging will be low (how low depends on where
the 3rd brush is positioned in the generator).
- When the switch is pulled out one notch, a direct ground is connected in parallel. Since this becomes the path
of least resistance, the resistor gets ignored and the 3rd brush gets the message to go to full charge (again "full"
is determined by the physical placement of the 3rd brush). A noticeable jump on the ammeter should be seen at this
point.
- One more pull on the switch and the lights come on in addition to the ground being directly connected. The
ammeter may drop back slightly at this point.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: NW Illinois
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Posted: 04 Sep 2016 at 3:25pm |
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The 3 way light switch has 2 separate functions.
1. in all the way runs the field wire of the genny thru a resister to ground. The other 2 positions, the field wire goes directly to ground without going thru the resister.
2. The second function is to turn the lights on putting power thru the fuse when the switch is pulled all the way out.
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Play Farmer
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Joined: 13 Jan 2016
Location: NNY
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Posted: 05 Sep 2016 at 6:59am |
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Thanks for all the information guys. I've been busy getting our food plots mowed, another piece of ground cleaned up and planted, and firewood into camp - plus our youngest came home for the weekend.
Some time this week I'll be tackling the G and see what happens.
Please keep the information and suggestions coming, they're much appreciated.
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Play Farmer
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Posted: 13 Sep 2016 at 7:09am |
Over the weekend I was finally able to run all new wires to everything - still no spark. Last night I headed out to look over and test some more stuff and it's now running. I'd like to tell you I'm a smart guy and knew exactly what I did to fix it, thats not the case.  All I did was check and double check everything I had done earlier when poof - it tried to start.
It tried and tried but wouldn't completely fire, but I was encouraged, so off came the carb. It was surprisingly clean but I cleaned it some more. I reinstalled it, pulled the starter, and it fired right up. Seemed to run decent too.
I had it started a dozen more times looking things over and checking things out, worked well every time. After it sat awhile it started leaking gas out of the air intake - I wasn't too surprised as I put the carb back together with the old parts and the needle was sticking a bit.
Now that I've heard it run I have a complete tune up kit on order; new cap, plugs, wires, rotor, points, condenser, and carb kit. They'll be going in it as soon as they show up.
I also found I DO have power to the lights, so that part of the switch is working. Next I need to figure out if the generator is generating and if that part of the system is working as it should.
Edited by Play Farmer - 13 Sep 2016 at 7:12am
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Play Farmer
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Posted: 22 Sep 2016 at 4:31am |
Carb is rebuilt, plugs, points, condenser, cap, rotor, plugs and wires are done, now it just purrs.  Wife's family is here for the weekend, I'll tackle the charging system next week.
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Bill Long
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Posted: 22 Sep 2016 at 11:07am |
Play Farmer. NICE JOB!! Let us know how the rest goes. If I recall the G was tough to ge3t started new but once you got it going it ran well. Good Luck! Bill Long
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WD45Diesel57
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Posted: 22 Sep 2016 at 12:24pm |
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i use 8 volt batteries in all my old tractors, just because they start so much quicker and its not that I neglect my wiring its all new on all of them, 6 volt Is a joke in my opinion
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1-B's, 2-C, 2-CA's,2-WF, 1-WC,1-G, 3-WD's, 2-WD45, 1-RC, 1-D17 Diesel, 1-D14, 2-D15,1-D17 row crop,1-D19 gas and All Crop 40,60,66,72,90 and 100
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Play Farmer
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Posted: 15 Feb 2017 at 3:00pm |
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Just a follow up on this as I haven't been on much. The G went back to it's owner working well. All systems work as they should, the charging system works well. I even found an old teardrop rear light and replaced that for him.
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Rog(NCWI)
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Posted: 15 Feb 2017 at 7:40pm |
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Good job. Another Allis saved. Glad you got it going for him.
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