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Griffin75 
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Joined: 07 Mar 2012
Location: MO
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 Topic: Hard Starting 1935 WC
Posted: 13 Jun 2012 at 9:24am |
My 35 WC unstyled is making me pull out my hair. I simply am having a hard time starting it. Heres the history: Checked points (good) and set timing of the rotor (tough to do, can not find a timing makr on flywheel, so did top dead ceter deal). Started it and finished setting timing after starting (4 cranks) and had to rotate toward the motor all the adjustment. Ran smooth and pulled hard with no misses against the breaks and drving. Did notice motor running hotter than normal after 3 mile drive in road gear. Shut it off and when I tried to restart it, no go! 25 cranks no go (but I gave out). SOOO...Question 1 Am I retarding the spark rotating the Magneto towards the motoer(counterclockwise looking from the drivers view) or advancing it? Hot looking spark from Mag. Carb has been cleaned. I gotta believe it is a timing issue and I am off a tooth onthe gear, but not sure which way. Any ideas? Looking forward to the help! I have a 54 CA ready for show and the 35 WC is ready if I can trust it to start. A 52 C is mechanically ready but waiting for paint.
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1935 WC, 1950 C, 1952 CA. Harleys and hit and misses are fun too!
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CTuckerNWIL
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: NW Illinois
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Posted: 13 Jun 2012 at 12:46pm |
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Does you Mag snap when you crank it over by hand? It should have a loud click to it when snapping over. That would be the impulse drive and is necessary to retard the timing when crank starting. If the impulse is not working, it may start hard but run fine once going.
Take the front plug out and crank till you feel compression on your
thumb while stuck in the hole. Now look and see where the setscrew is on
the front pulley. Turn it till that is straight down and you are on
TDC. Now remove the mag from the drive and look at the slot that drives
the mag. It should be directly horizontal. If not, you need to remove
the governor bolts, pull it back till you can rotate the gov to get it
horizontal when pulled up to the flange. Without rotating the mag or
engine, put things back together. Turning the mag toward the engine
advances the timing.
Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 13 Jun 2012 at 12:47pm
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Griffin75
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Location: MO
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Posted: 13 Jun 2012 at 3:00pm |
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Yep, I checked that as well. It snaps and I did the static plug test and watch the fire at top dead. Thanks for the info on the timing too! I love this forum. BTW, the old girl is in very sound mechanical shape, good compression just alittle hard headed. New plugs, points, etc but no plug wires, mybe those next but I was told that the solid wire plug wires are very robust and they don't need changed.
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1935 WC, 1950 C, 1952 CA. Harleys and hit and misses are fun too!
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B26240
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Location: mn
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Posted: 13 Jun 2012 at 7:17pm |
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Where is the throttle set when you try to start? Mine started best at one notch up from slow idle when motor was warm.
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Bill Long
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Posted: 13 Jun 2012 at 8:47pm |
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Usually when an engine cuts off or is hard to start after running for a while I think of the condenser - cheap - or coil - not so cheap.
From what you say your timing is not off that much.
Check with SteveNJ. He is our electrical expert and can make good suggestions or if wanted rebuild your mag.
By the way your flat top is 77 years old. Great to hear one of the first Allis Chalmers tractors my father sold is still in operating condition.
Good Luck!
Bill Long
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Griffin75
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Location: MO
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Posted: 14 Jun 2012 at 7:18am |
Thanks to everyone, the info and knowledge I am getting is excellent! I am taking another long look tonight at her. I will let you know if she starts better cold. Another bit of info, When I drove her about 3 miles in road gear high throttle, the temp neared the red zone of the gage and a little steam was coming fromt he down tube ont he right side of the radiator. IS this normal or indicative of a timing too retarded? Radiator is clean and air flow is very good. If I knew how, I would post a picture of her. I think I will try the condensor, sure is cheap and does not hurt anything to change it. Is there enough adjustment to the mag setting for timing to make up one tooth on the rotor drive? Tough to see to make sure the notches line up. Also, good suggestion on the throttle setting, I may have been trying with mine too open.
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1935 WC, 1950 C, 1952 CA. Harleys and hit and misses are fun too!
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 14 Jun 2012 at 11:40am |
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I believe I have mis-spoken about advancing the timing. Turning the mag toward the engine should retard the timing.
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Griffin75
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Posted: 14 Jun 2012 at 11:42am |
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HEy Guys, you know what. After I drove it and it was running so good I shut it down using the tab and now I am wondering.... Is that Mag tab ont he side shorting out and thats why I can't start it? Can;t wait to get home and tes the spark again.
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1935 WC, 1950 C, 1952 CA. Harleys and hit and misses are fun too!
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Griffin75
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Posted: 14 Jun 2012 at 11:43am |
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CTucker --- that set screw hint was great thanks!
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1935 WC, 1950 C, 1952 CA. Harleys and hit and misses are fun too!
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 14 Jun 2012 at 4:45pm |
Well I started my 35 with the crank again today. It's finally tuned and figured out so you can hand start it without having a couple back up guys. The All New 201(214 now) turns over way harder than my wore out B 
Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 14 Jun 2012 at 4:46pm
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Griffin75
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Posted: 15 Jun 2012 at 3:15pm |
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CTUCKER Can I change my condensor with out messing up my point setting? There is a tinge of yellow in my spark, is it supposed to be strong blue like everyone here tells me.
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1935 WC, 1950 C, 1952 CA. Harleys and hit and misses are fun too!
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 15 Jun 2012 at 5:25pm |
I don't know if you would have a condenser problem, but you should be able to change it OK. I would always double check point gap any time I open a mag or distributor up. I looked at the points on my FMJ mag the other day and thought they looked OK but when I pulled them out I could see a shallow spot in the center that was tarnished. A couple strokes with a fine file and they shot a nice spark out. I don't think anybody today makes points that have enough silver to file. One swipe and your down to the base metal 
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Griffin75
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Posted: 18 Jun 2012 at 9:48am |
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I order new points and condensor. WC would not start in front of the folks at the show, had to pull it a couple of feet. I think he was just jealous becasue my 51 CA won best of show.
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1935 WC, 1950 C, 1952 CA. Harleys and hit and misses are fun too!
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CTuckerNWIL
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Location: NW Illinois
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Posted: 18 Jun 2012 at 2:47pm |
It don't matter how good a tractor starts, if you get 6 or 8 people standing around watching you crank on it, she won't go. It's some kind of new Murphy's Law Sorry again Joe 
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