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Wiring for an Electric Fan?
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TimCNY View Drop Down
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Joined: 15 Apr 2014
Location: Upstate NY
Points: 1551 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimCNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Wiring for an Electric Fan?
    Posted: 25 Nov 2015 at 9:14am
Well, the search for a replacement cooling fan for my 6140 has been a nightmare and I'm ready to call it quits. No used ones. NO aftermarket ones. Definitely no NEW ones. Trying to match it with other fans from sellers online (one particular eBay seller is horrible) has been even worse; some measure bolt hole spacing diagonally, others measure to the adjacent (@90*) hole... I need a pusher blade, no more than 17" diameter, 4 mounting holes 5/16" diameter (8mm to accept an M6 bolt), bolt spacing 2" to adjacent mounting hole.

I have to go to the local U-Pull to see if a fan from a Ford Ranger with the 2.3L engine will work - I've been told that the bolt spacing may be tight but it's worth a shot.

Otherwise, it's been suggested that I go with an electric fan, but I'm not sure how best to wire it. I am thinking of going with a switch, but I'd appreciate all suggestions. AND if you have any leads on what fan blade will match this tractor!

Here's a pic or two:




Thanks in advance.
- Tim
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CAL(KS) View Drop Down
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
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Points: 3804 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CAL(KS) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2015 at 9:34am
http://www.summitracing.com has electric fans, relay kits and wiring how to's
Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20

Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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SHAMELESS View Drop Down
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
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Points: 29486 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SHAMELESS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2015 at 9:36am
camper stores have electric fans, also can prolly gits a fiberglass racing fan blade from a parts store, they move lots of air!
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Gerald J. View Drop Down
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Points: 5636 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2015 at 9:45am
Your pictures are so huge I can't see more than 1/8th of a picture at a time without shrinking the text down to dots.

Usually the hub center hole in the fan blade does the centering and the bolts don't do the centering. 8mm bolt holes are plenty big for 6mm bolts, in fractional assemblies 1/32" (.75mm) is plenty to allow for bolt hole drilling tolerances.

The vehicles I've had and have with electric fans use a thermostatic switch to run the fans when the water is hot. After highway driving they often come on while the engine is idling while I'm manually opening the garage door and run for a few minutes after the car is parked. That thermostat is located somewhere in the cooling system. I don't have that kind of detail on the newest car, but do have it for the previous one but not at the computer at the moment.

Gerald J.
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Stan R View Drop Down
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Points: 992 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stan R Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2015 at 9:48am
Looks about the same size as the fan on my hydrostatic drive john deere lawn tractor LX176. Similar type of flange too. Maybe..

Edited by Stan R - 25 Nov 2015 at 9:55am
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CTuckerNWIL View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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Points: 22825 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2015 at 11:12am
Originally posted by Gerald J. Gerald J. wrote:

Your pictures are so huge I can't see more than 1/8th of a picture at a time without shrinking the text down to dots.Gerald J.


If you right click on the picture a drop down menu should let you "view image" . It will open the image to fit your screen.
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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cpg View Drop Down
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Points: 246 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2015 at 11:56am
You can get all kinds of electric fans online and for cheap. I would just wire one up to a toggle switch so as long as you have a temp gauge where you can keep an eye on temp and turn it on when needed you should be good. 
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Creek Jenkins View Drop Down
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Points: 812 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Creek Jenkins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2015 at 1:38pm
Fan centers like this are generally spec'd by pilot diameter, bolt hole circle diameter (diagonal in your case with only 4 bolts), and bolt hole diameter.  Looks like an old Kysair fan.  They went Tango Uniform a while ago, but American Cooling Systems was formed by I think some of the old employees, making a similar fan.
From your pictures, it looks like your bolt circle diameter is about 2 5/8" and the pilot diameter is 1 1/2".  I dug up an ACS drawing of a model 482XXX fan and it looks like they have a version that is close but not quite the same as yours - 1.614" pilot and 2.5" bolt circle, 0.343" bolt holes - this may be the same as what you have, I can't tell for sure from the pics.  Gerald is correct, the center pilot centers the fan, the bolts just hold it on.  
You would also need to have the projected width (front to back of the blades looking from the side), blade width, and blade angle to make sure you are getting a similar performance fan.  In your area, Cummins Northeast, Penn Detroit Diesel, D&W Diesel are all ACS dealers.
I spec fans for diesel engine cooling every day and I can say that electric fans are not comparable with engine driven fans, they just don't have the same power.  Usually multiple electric fans would be needed to replace an engine driven fan.  If the engine driven fan pulls 2 or 3 hp, that translates into well north of 100 amps at 24 volts.  You can get by with an electric fan if you don't run full power for extended periods and/or cooler than the design ambients - which are usually 100 to 120F.
cheers,
Creek
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BrianC View Drop Down
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Points: 1619 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrianC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2015 at 2:39pm
We had a thread last year about fan for 6140.
Agco part number was 72099486.
http://www.worthingtonagparts.com/Allis-Chalmers-Radiator-Fan-USED-WU-72099486
Maybe they still have it?

The Massey Ferguson 1045 had a 3cyl Toyosha engine, and it's fan looks about the same, from what I can see on the Agcoparts books online.

I would find a suitable mechanical fan, keep looking. Was this your first attempt at help from this forum for this issue? Sometimes the day after you commit to a work-around (like the electric fan), you find the real deal.

In browsers, CTRL+ zooms in, CTRL- zooms out, CTRL0 back to normal scale. The text will go to dots as stated, the whole page gets scaled, but the picture scroll bars go away, letting you see the whole picture.
Some browsers allow saving or viewing the picture with right mouse click.
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TimCNY View Drop Down
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Points: 1551 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimCNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2015 at 4:49pm
Sorry about the size, I cannot seem to get the sizing figured out. When I've posted pics on other sites they adjust them to fit. I know I've had advice given in the past but it still confuses me.

Yes, this is my first attempt here looking for help on the fan.

I've been looking all over. The used 6140's at tractorhouse have no fans. The actual diagonal/bolt circle is 2-27/32" (~72mm), the pilot hole is 1-9/16" (~40mm) and does nothing; the face of the spacer it bolts to is perfectly flat. The rear is recessed 18mm or ~ 11/16". The ruler shown is on the face, which is proud of the mounting disc by about 3/4" so it's not a good way to interpolate the measurement of the bolt pattern or the pilot hole. The overall blade diameter is 16-15/16" or call it 17".

I've even looked into getting a metal fan that's close or good on all other counts except bolt circle, and having holes drilled at the correct spacing to fit. Not sure I want to mess around with that, though.

I called the local AGCO (actually about an hour + away) and was told they don't carry anything like that, but I'll call them back and try again. I'll also contact the other references you guys have given. Thanks, guys!
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TimCNY View Drop Down
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Points: 1551 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimCNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2015 at 4:56pm
OK, I'm wrong about the blade diameter - the Worthington Parts shows they have one in stock, 16-13/16" diameter. Thanks again. Not sure of the condition of the fan, they're usually pretty chipped and cracked. We'll see!
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Gerald J. View Drop Down
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Points: 5636 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2015 at 5:14pm
The picture entry function allows you to set the display size. 600 high by 800 wide works well.

Gerald J.
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TimCNY View Drop Down
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Points: 1551 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimCNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2015 at 10:45am
Originally posted by BrianC BrianC wrote:

We had a thread last year about fan for 6140.
Agco part number was 72099486.
http://www.worthingtonagparts.com/Allis-Chalmers-Radiator-Fan-USED-WU-72099486
Maybe they still have it?


Thanks for the tip, Brian, but I called on that part (they still have it listed!) and was told that the only location for that was in Wisconsin and the tractor was sent to the crusher in 2008!!! Wow... Good people, though, if they had what I needed I'd buy from them.

Thanks again.
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Steve in NJ View Drop Down
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Points: 12000 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2015 at 4:23pm
We sell electric fans and relays to our Hotrod customer's. I also have the relay kits in stock that I make up here in the shop if interested.
Steve@B&B
39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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