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bitburn 
Bronze Level
Joined: 07 Jun 2012
Location: Indiana
Points: 36
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 Topic: Does my engine require ZDDP oil?
Posted: 16 Jun 2012 at 9:51pm |
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I am planning on an oil change here soon for my CA. I ran into this issue in looking for oil for a Kohler K181. Due to the low valve seat pressure, the use of ZDDP, it was said it was not required.
From what I could gather I want to use a non detergent oil if I do not know how gunked up the engine is. Supposedly the cleaning agents loosen the sludge and get into the rotating assembly and cause increased wear.
But should I use a ZDDP additive?
Is there a standard tested oil that everyone uses for old gas AC engines?
F.Y.I. I am also going to order the correct oil filter which produces the correct oil pressure.
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ctbowles58
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Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: Clarksville, MO
Points: 2249
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Posted: 16 Jun 2012 at 10:14pm |
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just use 30w detergent oil it will not hurt anything.
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190XT 2WD45 WF D15 D14 CA BIG10 302 & 303 bailers 77G rake 80R mower 6 plows and alot more
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Ted in NE-OH
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Joined: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Austinburg OH
Points: 1703
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Posted: 16 Jun 2012 at 10:30pm |
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After I rebuilt my CA engine, I use 10W-30 detergent oil.
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CA, WD, C, 3 Bs, 2 Gs, WC, I-400, 914
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Coke-in-MN
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Afton MN
Points: 41984
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Posted: 16 Jun 2012 at 10:37pm |
straight 30 Det oil , 10/30 or even 15/40 Diesel oil will work fine , New types oil have additive packages for water dispersal and other improvements the old oils did not have and are not a problem to use in older engines . If your worried about loosened junk in engine , run it with new oil and add a quart of ATF and run it then change oil
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Life lesson: If you’re being chased by a lion, you’re on a horse, to the left of you is a giraffe and on the right is a unicorn, what do you do? You stop drinking and get off the carousel.
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Gerald J.
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton Co, IA
Points: 5636
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Posted: 16 Jun 2012 at 11:03pm |
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In my opinion, running an engine on nondetergent oil is abuse of the engine. Besides detergent for cleaning, modern oils have additives to prevent electrolysis of the bearing inserts (bronze, lead, copper or silver vs steel) and extended pressure additives to stand up to the forces at the cam to lifter sliding interface.
I remember vividly the effects of detergent on cleanliness in NYC taxi engines reported in Texaco's Lubrication magazine when I was a kid (my dad was on their mailing list) and detergent was being tested. Engines without detergent were packed solid with sludge in a few months while engines with detergent oil were clean like from the factory for years.
Gerald J.
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Josh Day
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Joined: 29 Nov 2010
Location: Indiana
Points: 3427
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Posted: 17 Jun 2012 at 6:26am |
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SAE 30 is what I use. Where are you located in IN, I seen a CA go by my place a few days ago. Josh
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bitburn
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Joined: 07 Jun 2012
Location: Indiana
Points: 36
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Posted: 17 Jun 2012 at 7:00am |
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Northeastern Indiana.
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mdtractormechanic
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Joined: 26 May 2011
Location: MD
Points: 662
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Posted: 17 Jun 2012 at 8:53am |
Todays non-detergent oil is 'modern oil' less the detergent. If you have an old engine with sludge build up and you use a detergent oil you will increased wear until all the gunk is filtered out. Obviously, the amount of wear depends on the amount of build up and how long it takes to clean. Also, engines with rope or felt seals tend to start leaking after the build up is removed. Even gaskets can start to leak. The engine could start smoking after the valve seals are cleaned allowing an excessive amount of oil in the combustion chamber.
I would never use non detergent oil in a modern, high speed engine, but in engines like these old tractor using non detergent oil won't harm anything. If you do a total rebuild (replacing main seals) use detergent.
My thoughts as a heavy equipment mechanic.
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Joe's 1939 Model WC, 1940 Model RC, 1944 & 1950 Model C's, B-125 PU
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Coke-in-MN
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Afton MN
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Posted: 17 Jun 2012 at 10:53am |
One thing that is unknown is over the last 50 years what oil was used in it and by what owner. It may have used detergent oil for the last 30 years and now you are going to go backwards. I always figure to just use the highest grade I can afford in a straight petroleum based oil, and stay away from synthetic oils unless they have been used since new.
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Life lesson: If you’re being chased by a lion, you’re on a horse, to the left of you is a giraffe and on the right is a unicorn, what do you do? You stop drinking and get off the carousel.
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mdtractormechanic
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Joined: 26 May 2011
Location: MD
Points: 662
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Posted: 17 Jun 2012 at 12:41pm |
It's not going backwards in using non detergent oil if you don't know the history, it's playing it safe. That being said, even knowing a short history, say 1 or 2 years would be very helpful.
Not having cleaning agents does not make it a low grade oil.
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Joe's 1939 Model WC, 1940 Model RC, 1944 & 1950 Model C's, B-125 PU
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bitburn
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Joined: 07 Jun 2012
Location: Indiana
Points: 36
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Posted: 17 Jun 2012 at 4:19pm |
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I am going to pull the valve cover and oil pan and take a look. I want to get an idea what it looks like inside. Supposedly the engine has never been rebuilt, and has lived most or all of its life on one farm.
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mdtractormechanic
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Joined: 26 May 2011
Location: MD
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Posted: 17 Jun 2012 at 5:18pm |
 bitburn wrote:
I am going to pull the valve cover and oil pan and take a look. I want to get an idea what it looks like inside. Supposedly the engine has never been rebuilt, and has lived most or all of its life on one farm.
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Good idea bitburn....If there is little to no sign of sludge, odds are detergent oil was used. If there's sludge and you're not planning to overhaul the engine, Clean out what you can and play it safe as I posted earlier.
Good Luck!
Edited by mdtractormechanic - 17 Jun 2012 at 5:20pm
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Joe's 1939 Model WC, 1940 Model RC, 1944 & 1950 Model C's, B-125 PU
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