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Allice Chalmers d14 wont start

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salvaterrasgardens View Drop Down
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    Posted: 18 Oct 2015 at 4:47pm
I have an allice d 14.  Went to start it up and it cranked but will not start.  I can smell gas therefore assumed gas wasnt clogged.  i removed the bowl and cleaned the screen which tends to be the usual culprit.  I changed the spark plugs last year and haven't had a problem with them since.  Where should I go from here?
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DougS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2015 at 4:49pm
The usual. Does it have spark? Apparently it is getting gas.
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salvaterrasgardens View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote salvaterrasgardens Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2015 at 5:04pm
What is the easiest way to visually check if it has a spark?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jkoby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2015 at 5:23pm
Quickest? Lick finger, stick in plug boot, crank engine!

I use a spare plug (or remove one) and hold it against a clean spot of the engine/frame with a good set of pliers (rubber handled) while somebody cranks the engine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jkoby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2015 at 5:25pm
When was the last it was used? I just have a wd and have not used a d14. Does the d14 have points that could be tarnished or corroded?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2015 at 5:53pm
Yep, check the points with a test light.  If light don't light, check switch or wiring.
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ac160 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac160 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2015 at 6:20pm
Ditto on checking for spark.  Also check the points.  You should be able to check for spark without cranking if you manually move the points.  I think if the points are closed and you open them you should get a spark off the wire going to the condenser.  
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salvaterrasgardens View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote salvaterrasgardens Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2015 at 7:35pm
Thanks everyone for the information.  I last used it 2 months ago.  Was running fine.  Im going to check the plugs and get back to everyone with results in the next couple days.
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Lon(MN) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lon(MN) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2015 at 8:03am
With the gas today, I always start with new gas. Drain the tank and start with new.
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Gerald J. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2015 at 9:23am
From a post I made last month. Need to make it into a permanent post or a web page.
From a post I made about 7 weeks ago.
Anything in the ignitions system can go wrong.

From a post I made a couple weeks ago:
Sitting a while points sometimes corrode and don't make contact even when the close. Or I've had points on a running engine stop moving because of lack of lubrication on the point pivot.

Fact is everything in the ignition system has to be right for it to run and any part can stop it. Points, condenser, coil, wires, ignition switch, distributor advance, rotor, cap and I've had trouble with nearly every one of these some time.

From a post I made last year. Should make it a web page.
Topic - is my new coil bad?
Posted: Dec 19 2014 at 1:34pm By Gerald J.
Points are ALWAYS on the ground side of the coil. Makes them easier to build mechanically. Ignition switch is on the hot side. When points are open there will be 12 volts on both coil primary connections. The voltage on the points side will be very slightly lower because of the voltmeter load and the coil primary resistance. For good VOM at 20,000 ohms per volt on the 25 volt scale the voltage drop will be 75 or 100 microvolts, which you won't detect. When the points are closed there will be 12 volts on the battery terminal, and zero on the points wire. If the points don't close that won't happen and there won't be any ignition. If the voltage drops on the battery post of the coil with the points closed, there's external resistance in the battery wire that you don't need with the 12 volt internal resistor coil.

A coil works by storing energy in the core's magnetic field while the points are closed. An inductor like the coil tends to slow the change in current, so the current rises in a few milliseconds from nothing to being limited by the DC resistance. Then then the points open, the coil voltage rises rapidly trying to maintain same current. We electrical engineers call that L* di / dt. The voltage is the inductance times the rate of change of current. Otherwise known as inductive kick. The primary coil induces lots of voltage (tens of thousands of volts) in the many turns of the secondary.

Typically points are closed about half the time as the distributor cam rotates and open about half the time, that ratio is called dwell. So the odds are about 50/50 of finding the points open or closed, modified by where the engine stopped after bouncing off the last compression stroke.

The points have to have the correct gap set on top of the cam to close and open properly. And after setting the gap with a feeler gauge (or in some GM distributors with a dwell meter while running) the timing has to be set so ignition happens at the right piston position, anticipating top dead center sooner the faster the engine is running. That's the job of the centrifugal advance weights. If they haven't been lubricated they will mess up timing and engine running. Timing stuck advanced will nearly stall the starter while cranking. Timing stuck retarded will make for a very smooth running engine with low power.

A bad condenser/capacitor will upset the power in the ignition pulse (good condenser makes for a fat blue spark, a bad condenser makes a thin yellow spark). A shorted condenser will prevent the circuit from opening and so kills spark completely.

Spark is better if the coil primary connection polarity matches the battery polarity.

Besides the points gap, and distributor timing, the cam shaft timing has to be right so the valve open and close at the proper times as well as the distributor gear drive timing has to be right. Then the carburetor mix has to be right because gasoline vapor has to be rich enough but not too rich, its not like hydrogen that will burn from about 2% to 90% in air, gasoline has to be about 15 to 25% to burn.

There are so many things that have to be right for a gasoline engine to run that its sometimes amazing that after working on one that it runs at all. Fuel, air, spark, timing of spark, timing of valves (affected by the cam gears and the valve clearances) all have to be right to run at all or to run good.

Gerald J.

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