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Orange Blood 
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Joined: 29 Nov 2010
Location: ColoradoSprings
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 Topic: Anyone see anything wrong with this?
Posted: 25 Jan 2012 at 8:58am |
So I bought all new seals for the front end of a 17 Series I I bought, but I don't think they make one for this opening, cause by some idiot and his grinder.
Dad says I should just weld it up, and clean out the bearing cavity from the inside, which could work as I will be tearing it completely apart anyway, but I am not set up to weld cast here, and have never had great luck doing that anyway.
I am thinking that these housings rarely ever break, and hardly ever get sold from the salvage folks, guessing they almost always end up riding to the iron man. I would prefer to replace it, does anyone have one, just the gear housing, not the lower bolster?
It would be at least a $100.00 at the welding shop, if I took it somewhere, if I hauled it to the farm and back that would be over a $100.00, and again a questionable weld. Does anyone have one in the bone yard, that they could let go reasonable, I don't yet know what it weighs empty, but maybe we could leapfrog it so shipping isn't huge?
Your Thoughts???
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DonDittmar
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Posted: 25 Jan 2012 at 9:01am |
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Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"
1968 D15D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
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DonDittmar
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Posted: 25 Jan 2012 at 9:02am |
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I have one for a d14 if they are the same casting
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Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"
1968 D15D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 25 Jan 2012 at 9:09am |
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How thick is the casting there? If it's 5/16 to 1/4 inch, drill it round and tap it for a 1/4 inch pipe plug.
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Orange Blood
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Posted: 25 Jan 2012 at 9:13am |
I just looked at the agco parts book, and the D14 won't work, thanks for the idea Don.
Tuck,
It is kinda hard to tell, but backed right up to the underside of the hole, is the steering sector shaft, and bearing. I can't have anything protruding down into the casting, and I want to put the front pump back on, so I need clearance on the top too.
Thanks for the idea though, that would certainly work on other areas of the housing, just not here.
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Travis(NE)
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Posted: 25 Jan 2012 at 9:46am |
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The early ones had small holes for the hand crank that needed to be opened up for the front pump shaft. Never seen one done like that tho? Is the shaft rubbing the housing?
I just gutted and cleaned one up off of a 19 to help Chuck out. It is a different part number, but I think it could work? It may also be the same as the early 17's? I just looked at the numbers last week and forgot already, go figure, but will check when I get back to my "office". I also have one off of an early 17, tho you could probably find one closer. I would probably do like Don suggested for now, clean it up and JB it.
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Coke-in-MN
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Afton MN
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Posted: 25 Jan 2012 at 10:19am |
One of the plastic steel / repair in a can or tube products. Or take a thin piece of metal and some black silicone and lay a patch over the area , gluing the new metal to the cast. Could braze or silver-solder a patch on also.
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Life lesson: If you’re being chased by a lion, you’re on a horse, to the left of you is a giraffe and on the right is a unicorn, what do you do? You stop drinking and get off the carousel.
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Eldon (WA)
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Posted: 25 Jan 2012 at 10:42am |
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I've got one here....don't know how I would get it to you....
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ALLIS EXPRESS!
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Orange Blood
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Posted: 25 Jan 2012 at 10:48am |
Travis,
I may very well be interested, as the farm is near Kearney Nebraska.
This is an early 17. Pleas send me a PM, of what you are asking?
The funny thing is, when I looked at how the pump bracket was installed, the pump was about a 1/4" low from center line of the crankshaft, but the really funny thing is, there is a 1/4" of clearance under the shaft at the point of the grinding. So it wasn't necessary at all even if the pump was low. The shaft actually hits at the front of the housing right where the pump bracket is, if the pump is installed low in the holes, so basically if done right, there would have been no need for this grinding, unless the casting was 1/2" thick at this point. This points out the need to progressively check your work along the way, and stop when you get far enough. I speculate he guy had an 8" grinder or bigger, and just went to town for 10 minutes, hit the gear, and went, "oh crap" stuck a rag over it and left it????
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ChuckLuedtkeSEWI
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Posted: 25 Jan 2012 at 6:33pm |
I was gonna suggest Travis's but I see he already has. Is there some JB weld on your pulley also? I agree with the others in that JB weld, or brazing it shut would work well. Silicone in the hole would work too. It's not like the case is under pressure.
I have had some very good luck with JBweld. My brother had a pan on his F350 that was weeping. To change the pan is pulling the engine, so I suggested the JB trick. He drained it, cleaned it really good, and up till he sold it, it hadn't leaked yet. I also had an old hand grinder that the hand crank was taken off and a pulley and motor installed. We used it to grind corn for chicken food. The cast piece that holds the burrs in cracked in half when it fell over in the barn. I took it to a local shop where the guy there can weld anything and I mean anything. He tacked it in two spots and told me it was too thin to weld the entire piece. He suggest the JBweld. I ran a layer on one side and let it dry and then repeated on the inside. That piece held up for about five years of grinding until it fell over again and rebroke.
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1955 WD45 diesel 203322 was my dad's tractor, 1966 D15 23530, 1961 HD3 Crawler 1918, 1966 D17 IV 83495, 1937 WC 41255, 1962 D19 6221
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RichinWis
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Posted: 25 Jan 2012 at 9:02pm |
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I had that same hole in the front casting of my D17 that has the front pump on it. Mine though got the hole from the former owner putting cheap bolts in to hold the pump bracket on and then the one bolt breaking and the shaft coming down on the casting and after time wearing a hole right through the casting. With all the guarding in the front you couldn't even see it till after I owned it and the second bolt broke and then the pump stopped turning because the shaft came out to far. I decided to change the casting because I wanted to work over the power steering and put in new seals etc. etc. You know how it goes, one thing leads to another. Really it wasn't that bad when I knew that it would take awhile dealing with the loader and all, but you must plan on taking some time doing it that way, because surely that one thing isn't the only thing you will run into under there.
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Orange Blood
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Posted: 25 Jan 2012 at 9:26pm |
Again thanks for all the ideas. I am not a big fan of JB weld, never had a problem with it, just seems like a lazy fix, not saying you all are lazy, but I don't know how to take shortcuts, so I guess I will just replace it, if the money is right. I'm one of those guys that will spend 10 grand to fix (in my mind "correctly") a $2500.00 tractor. That is probably why I really don't want to weld it either??? Maybe I wasted your time, I don't know, but again thanks,
Anthony
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Ryan Renko
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Posted: 25 Jan 2012 at 9:43pm |
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I would clean the front support very well and just use jb weld on it. There is not any pressure in there. Ryan
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Travis(NE)
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Posted: 25 Jan 2012 at 9:48pm |
The one I cleaned up off of a 19 would work on a 17 effective S/N 38136 & up, but it doesn't sound like yours is. I think the main difference is where the WFE pivot block bolts up to the steering block and the hole for the hand crank. The early ones used 1/2" bolts - 3/4" wrench size and the later used 5/8" bolt - 15/16" wrench size. Check which bolts you have.
Where are you or the tractor located? Bellow your ID it says ColoradoSprings, but you mention Kearney? I make it out to the Kearney area once in a while and have a friend that lives just south in Minden.
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NEJim
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Posted: 26 Jan 2012 at 8:41am |
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Bubble Gum ???
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Charlie (NC)
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Posted: 26 Jan 2012 at 8:45am |
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Tap the hole to the next biggest bolt size. Screw a bolt in it with some loctite and grind it off smooth. Fill the rest of the damage with JB and be done with it.
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Gary
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Posted: 26 Jan 2012 at 8:49am |
How about some fibreglass autobody repair ? Cuz that stuff really sticks - like they say 'like sh$t to a blanket' You're just keeping the grease in and the dirt out. Gary
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Orange Blood
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Posted: 26 Jan 2012 at 3:22pm |
 Travis(NE) wrote:
The one I cleaned up off of a 19 would work on a 17 effective S/N 38136 & up, but it doesn't sound like yours is. I think the main difference is where the WFE pivot block bolts up to the steering block and the hole for the hand crank. The early ones used 1/2" bolts - 3/4" wrench size and the later used 5/8" bolt - 15/16" wrench size. Check which bolts you have.
Where are you or the tractor located? Bellow your ID it says ColoradoSprings, but you mention Kearney? I make it out to the Kearney area once in a while and have a friend that lives just south in Minden. |
Tractor is here with me in Colorado Springs, grew up on the farm in Nebraska, just outside Gibbon, east of Kearney. Get back there a couple times a year.
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Still in use:
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Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7
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Travis(NE)
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Posted: 26 Jan 2012 at 8:27pm |
Here is what you had...  Sorry I need this one yet Left to right is 17 series 2ish, series IV, and 19...  Left to right 19, series IV with 5/8" bolts, and series 2ish with 1/2" bolts...  I like the way you think about fixing things the long harder way with correct parts as that is what I would also do, but until then I would probably use the JB weld and nobody would ever know. You are more than welcome to try the casting I have bare off of a 19 if you want to pick it up next time you are in Kearney. I "think" all of the guts out of yours will work in it, but you will have to drill the holes out in the lower bearing retainer and WFE pivot block for the 5/8" bolts.   This is the lower bearing retainer, but I sent it to Chuck....  As far as the guts I took out of the housing you could take them also if you want, just let me know when and where.
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Travis(NE)
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Posted: 26 Jan 2012 at 8:31pm |
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Forgot to mention I would trade you all the parts you need for your D21... :-)
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Orange Blood
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Posted: 26 Jan 2012 at 9:03pm |
Travis(NE) wrote:
Forgot to mention I would trade you all the parts you need for your D21... :-) |
Um, let me think about that for a while........Since Dad won't even sell it to me, I doubt he will be interested in that kind of a swap, but I will ask! :-)
Thanks for all the pics, that clearly too you some time. I will look into it a bit and get back to you.
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Still in use:
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Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7
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Travis(NE)
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Posted: 27 Jan 2012 at 9:33pm |
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Dang thought for sure I'd be getting a D21 out of this deal... LOL. Well guess my second thought would be a case of Budwieser for the bare 19 housing if you want it, or if your interested in the complete series 2ish one with the 1/2" bolt holes we could probably work something out.
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Henry se/k!
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Posted: 28 Jan 2012 at 6:53pm |
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I have one in eastern Kansas if that would help. 620 496 7558 if interested. would be closer than some
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Orange Blood
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Posted: 04 Feb 2012 at 8:16am |
Thanks for all the ideas, I have decided to go with replacing the housing.
Travis, your info is correct on the differences between pre and effective S/N 38136.
So now the search begins for a replacement housing
Anyone have one from a D17 Series I, only the upper cast housing shown above.
Thanks,
Anthony
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Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060
Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7
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