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Turbo_760 
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Joined: 04 Dec 2011
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 Topic: CA will not Start
Posted: 30 Dec 2011 at 8:21pm |
trying to get the CA I picked up to run... When i looked at it the previous owner had it running.. need about 1/2 choke and would only run at low rpms only. I was able to drive it around shut it off and fire it back up. Since I have got It I can not get it to run.
I have done the following
- new Spark Plugs
- Swapped to another coil
- Rebuilt carb
- Set Ignition timing was way off (I have checked this multiple times)
- Removed manifold and inspect for cracks gasket leaks
- temproray gas tank setup
The engine will fire maybe a few times (maybe 5s) and then die. It does the same thing if I use the choke on the engine or if I give it a shot of either.
I have checked the carburator over and blew air through all the passages. There is fuel in the bowl.
Not sure what the issue is.... not thinking it is the carb any more because If it will not run limp along if I just keep giving it short burst of starter fluid. I would expect it to keep running if I give it another shot
The plugs are probably fouled as I have been messing with it for a while with it running succesfully. the #4 Spark plugs has some oil on it as well
What I am planning to due
- Get a new set of spark plugs
- Get a new coil ( do not think this is the problem, but need one)
- Do a compression test
I have tried starting it with all different throttle positions no difference. It fires and sputter for a few then dies. I have both the intake cleaner assembly and the muffler off.
distributor and cap and wires look pretty new. I get a good spark If set a plug against the engine.
What else should I do?
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1951 CA
Cub Cadet 149
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Chalmersbob
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Points: 2122
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Posted: 30 Dec 2011 at 9:24pm |
You need fuel and spark to make it run, spark has to be in time with engine rotation.
You say that you have good spark, and it will run on ether (not a good idea), so it sounds like a timing or fuel problem. The spark plug wires should be solid wire not carbon. Remove plug #1, closest to the radiator, and crank over by hand until you feel air coming out of the plug hole. the poke a wire in the plug hole and feel the top of the piston and turn the crank until the piston is at the top. Remove the distributor cap and see it the rotor points the wire position 1. usually front closest to the engine. that will determine if it is timed properly. You can also remove the plugs and squirt gas into the clynders, reinstall the plugs and see if it will start. Bob
Edited by Chalmersbob - 30 Dec 2011 at 9:27pm
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wekracer
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Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Location: Tebbetts, MO
Points: 1590
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Posted: 30 Dec 2011 at 11:11pm |
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sounds like bad points to me. have you tried replacing the points and condenser? When points go bad, it will sputter and spit but if you half choke it can usually get home or at least close. they can act real funny when they go bad. start and run for a little while, then die. Idle fine but sputter under load. It will make you chase all kinds of symptoms.
good luck.
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Gerald J.
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton Co, IA
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Posted: 31 Dec 2011 at 12:45am |
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Changing points and point gap will require setting the timing again.
Gerald J.
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Turbo_760
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Joined: 04 Dec 2011
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Posted: 31 Dec 2011 at 12:22pm |
Did the following and it still behaves the same. While cranking it will fire and sputter for a few seconds and then die.
- new Points
- new Condensor
- New Coil
- new Cap ( didn't have wires or roter in stock)
- new plugs
Set point gap and retimed the engine
If I put my hand over the carb while cranking I can feel the suction and it pulls fuel.
What is the starting position for the idle air fuel control? A few turns out?
Going to do a compression test next, then I think I am out of ideas
Edited by Turbo_760 - 31 Dec 2011 at 12:23pm
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1951 CA
Cub Cadet 149
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Rick of HopeIN
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Hope, Indiana
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Posted: 31 Dec 2011 at 1:13pm |
If the fuel has been sitting for more than a few months in the tank make sure to try fresh fuel before you get too far. Sometimes I have found that to be the only problem. Seems to keeep ok in a fuel can but not in the tractor or small engine tanks.
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1951 B, 1937 WC, 1957 D14, -- Thanks and God Bless
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Goose
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Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Location: Melrose, Wis
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Posted: 31 Dec 2011 at 1:30pm |
Sounds like there might be a lot of blow-by, meaning the rings are worn to the point that oil is entering the combustion chamber past the rings. A compression check will identify this. It will run at low speeds, but as you attempt to increase throttle, the blow-by increases to the point it fouls the plugs and combustion is compromised from the oil.
You can probably identify it also by looking at the crankcase oil, which will be diluted with gas.
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Stan IL&TN
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Location: Elvis Land
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Posted: 31 Dec 2011 at 1:41pm |
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I'm with Goose and think a compression test is needed. You may also want to look for excessive slop in the throttle shaft as it may suck in too much air and not enough fuel to run.
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1957 WD45 dad's first AC
1968 one-seventy
1956 F40 Ferguson
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GregLawlerMinn
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Location: Lawler, Mn
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Posted: 31 Dec 2011 at 1:48pm |
Start the carb adjusting screw 1 1/2 turns back from bottom. Be prepared to turn it in. Do you have good fuel flow to the carb (it is not uncommon to have some crud in the tank and/or sediment bowl screen plugged up)? You may also want to pull off the carb again and clean it by blowing carb cleaner or brake cleaner thru all the passages followed up by blowing air thru them. Also use some fine wire and poke thru the passages. I have seen many old tractors where someone removed the sediment bowl screen allowing fine sediment to plug up the passages in the carb. You should also verify that the float is set properly and both ears are level with each other and not hanging up on the bowl. If you have 80 PSI compression and all the cylinders are fairly close, the engine should run smoothly (altho with less power). One final thing is the air cleaner, it is not uncommon for them to be clogged up with dust/rust, if the engine runs decent without the cleaner; it needs to be thoroughly cleaned.
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What this country needs is more unemployed politicians-and lawyers.
Currently have: 1 D14 and a D15S2.
With new owners: 2Bs,9CAs,1WD,2 D12s,5D14s,3D15S2s, 2D17SIVs,D17D,1D19D;1 Unstyled WC
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Turbo_760
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Joined: 04 Dec 2011
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Posted: 31 Dec 2011 at 5:43pm |
Well I got it to run. The distributor was not setup right. I took it out and followed the instruction in my manual. It must have been installed incorretly to begin with. This was the major source of my problems.
Now it will fire off and run at a low throttle with out any choke, but if you want to rev it up you need to add about 1/2 choke.
Cylinder compression was over 100PSI on all cylinder, difficult to read as the cheap loan a tool for autozone must have been missing a check valve, So I had to watch the needle bounce around
Now it will reliably fire off and run, just appears to be running lean so I will have to look
into that
Air cleaner assembly is not connected ( so that isn't a problem)
Edited by Turbo_760 - 31 Dec 2011 at 5:57pm
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1951 CA
Cub Cadet 149
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scott
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: michigan
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Posted: 01 Jan 2012 at 8:55am |
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Crud in the tank will slowly cover over the hole and "release" when ya turn it off. How does the screen in the sediment bowl look? Get a funnel and pull the sediment bowl off and just let the gas run and see if the stream slows down. Was the tractor sitting for long before you got it?
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Stan IL&TN
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Location: Elvis Land
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Posted: 01 Jan 2012 at 9:03am |
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Assuming you are still using a temp gas tank then the issue is in the carb. Time to remove it and take it apart completely to clean all passages.
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1957 WD45 dad's first AC
1968 one-seventy
1956 F40 Ferguson
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Turbo_760
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Posted: 01 Jan 2012 at 9:56am |
I tend to agree, now that I have the ignition figured out, time for the carb.
still running out of temp gas tank, so I can rule out bad gas and debris, etc.
I have taken the carb apart and cleaned it a few times so I must be missing something. Last time I blew compressed air through all the passages that I could get to... I must be missing something
I guess I'll pull it apart and let it soak in the carb cleaner for a couple of hours.
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1951 CA
Cub Cadet 149
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Gerald J.
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Location: Hamilton Co, IA
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Posted: 01 Jan 2012 at 10:08am |
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Often there is a wire mesh screen on the inside end of the inlet adapter. I've see that so plugged that a tractor would run only seconds. When extracted I couldn't get air from my air tank at 60 psi to pass.
There can be a drain plug on the float bowl, you need to check for fuel flow continuing several minutes with that drain plug removed. You have the standard symptoms of restricted fuel flow that can be a stuck float needle, that screen plugged, the fuel line plugged by varnish, the sediment bowl screen plugged, or the sediment bowl inlet screen (if it has one) plugged.
Or with the carburetor off, you can check for flow by using lung pressure to blow on the inlet. It should take air at lung pressure with the float down (and bowl off or empty) and should shut off with the carburetor inverted. If you can't blow air with your lungs, fuel isn't going to flow by gravity.
Gerald J.
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Soilguy
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Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Location: Weslaco, TX
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Posted: 02 Jan 2012 at 10:24am |
This might sound crazy, but I found the information at this website very helpful, to say the least. It's written for Ford 8Ns, but is generally applicable to most older carbs. Being a relative newby at tractor engines, I was stimied after rebuilding a Marvel Schebler carb. I could not get it adjusted correctly. The engine would not run well at all. It acted very similarly to your description. The logical steps of the adjustment process really helped me. I got the thing to running very well, even if I do say so myself. :) Good luck. Larry
Edited by Soilguy - 02 Jan 2012 at 10:39am
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