HD4 converter hydraulics? Wont move

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   Hi, I inherited a HD4, 1968 or 69 I think (S/N 3552).  After sitting for a couple years, we had a couple coolant hoses to replace and the starter was toast.  Got it running and drove it some, engine runs great.  The power cut out to the tracks a couple times intermittantly.  I was able to operate it for about 15 min. to get ot down to the road to load it on a trailer without issue.  After trailering it and offloading at my place it wouldnt move, no fwd or reverse.  I drained the converter fluid (both front and rear chanbers).  Added 4 gal. new ATF and ran to fill front chamber, but it wouldnt take the remaining 2 gal. Cleaned suction screen, replaced filter behind grill.  I screwed pressure gages into the two test ports in the shuttle clutch, reading no pressure on either port.  The converter pump is pumping somewhat, tried cracking a fitting when running and got some atf coming out, but not as high as I would expect. I'm thinking I need to replace the converter  pump.  Any other ideas of what to check before I spend the money ?

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mikeroche56 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 25 Jan 2016 Location: Northeastern OH Points: 6	Post Options Post Reply Quote mikeroche56 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: HD4 converter hydraulics? Wont move Posted: 25 Jan 2016 at 8:14am
	Hi, I inherited a HD4, 1968 or 69 I think (S/N 3552). After sitting for a couple years, we had a couple coolant hoses to replace and the starter was toast. Got it running and drove it some, engine runs great. The power cut out to the tracks a couple times intermittantly. I was able to operate it for about 15 min. to get ot down to the road to load it on a trailer without issue. After trailering it and offloading at my place it wouldnt move, no fwd or reverse. I drained the converter fluid (both front and rear chanbers). Added 4 gal. new ATF and ran to fill front chamber, but it wouldnt take the remaining 2 gal. Cleaned suction screen, replaced filter behind grill. I screwed pressure gages into the two test ports in the shuttle clutch, reading no pressure on either port. The converter pump is pumping somewhat, tried cracking a fitting when running and got some atf coming out, but not as high as I would expect. I'm thinking I need to replace the converter pump. Any other ideas of what to check before I spend the money ?

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mikeroche56 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 25 Jan 2016 Location: Northeastern OH Points: 6	Post Options Post Reply Quote mikeroche56 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jan 2016 at 8:18am
	Sorry for LONG post!! Thanks in advance for any help!!

CAL(KS) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Location: Chapman, KS Points: 3800	Post Options Post Reply Quote CAL(KS) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jan 2016 at 9:07am
	i imagine its somewhat cold there? any chance pump is sucking air. I am not familiar with system but unless pump is submerged in oil it is possible.
	Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15

mikeroche56 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 25 Jan 2016 Location: Northeastern OH Points: 6	Post Options Post Reply Quote mikeroche56 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jan 2016 at 9:18am
	Thanks for the reply, CAL! It has been in the 20F range here, but was warm when it first cut out, like 50deg. The suction line is a metal tube with short rubber couplings at the ends connecting to the pump inlet and the bottom of the sump. I replaced the rubber coupling at the pump as it looked pretty bad, but kept the one at the sump, looked ok. Tightened clamps good.

ivan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: NE Michigan Points: 319	Post Options Post Reply Quote ivan Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jan 2016 at 11:40am
	we stock new pumps and rebuild old ones 989-3792721

Randaleky Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 17 Aug 2011 Location: belfry, ky. Points: 427	Post Options Post Reply Quote Randaleky Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jan 2016 at 5:59pm
	according to my repair manual on hd4. the capacity of fluid for the torque housing and power shuttle clutch is 33 quarts. if you completely drained and could only get 4 gal. which is 16 quarts, then it wont move in either direction until more fluid is put in. i suspect there is air in the lines which is why it will not move. need to open pressure line at shuttle shift until you get full flow of fluid. just my thoughts in it. i have an hd4 dozer and loader. any time it gets a little low on fluid it won't move.

mikeroche56 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 25 Jan 2016 Location: Northeastern OH Points: 6	Post Options Post Reply Quote mikeroche56 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jan 2016 at 7:09pm
	Thanks Randaleky, i'll try to purge air at the shuttle clutch and see if I can get the fluid to transfer to the front cavity. Probably wont be able to try again until the weekend but will post an update. Mike

mikeroche56 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 25 Jan 2016 Location: Northeastern OH Points: 6	Post Options Post Reply Quote mikeroche56 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 10:20am
	Hi, here is an update, I added Lucas trans leak stop to the suction line and was able to get the fluid to transfer to the front compartment and then add more fluid to fill the sump to capacity. I tried purging at the shuttle clutch valve but it seemed to be all clear. Started moving right after shifting into fwd the first try!! Was able to move it down our drive across the field and into our barn. Thanks everyone for the tips & advice!!

Randaleky Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 17 Aug 2011 Location: belfry, ky. Points: 427	Post Options Post Reply Quote Randaleky Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 2:38pm
	you are welcome. anytime post a problem you have !