The Ongoing Saga

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   Good morning, all. Glad you made it over to the new post. For those that didn't catch the original postings, they are under the post title "New to Forum". 

Well, I pulled what I thought was the front final drive cover off, but I must have been in the wrong spot. The only thing I could see in there was a shaft and two seals. I assumed they were the final drive pinion shaft and seals. Both seals were dry, no apparent leakage, the inside of the cavity was also dry. I was running short on time, so I will re-visit the area when I can get in and have a good look further down inside.
Also got two major fuel leaks dealt with at the end of the day. First was the fitting on the fuel line under the tank. It must have been there from day one, but yesterday it really showed itself. Turns out, even though it was "tight", it wasn't threaded on properly. Fortunately, I got a bite on the original threads and got it seated. The second was a repair someone had made to the fuel line. They had cut the copper line under the seat and installed a rubber hose to the filter. Usually, an accepted practice, but not when you use a hose that has "Not for fuel" written right on it. 

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BCPaul Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 24 Sep 2015 Location: Northern BC Points: 21	Post Options Post Reply Quote BCPaul Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: The Ongoing Saga Posted: 27 Sep 2015 at 7:26am
	Good morning, all. Glad you made it over to the new post. For those that didn't catch the original postings, they are under the post title "New to Forum". Well, I pulled what I thought was the front final drive cover off, but I must have been in the wrong spot. The only thing I could see in there was a shaft and two seals. I assumed they were the final drive pinion shaft and seals. Both seals were dry, no apparent leakage, the inside of the cavity was also dry. I was running short on time, so I will re-visit the area when I can get in and have a good look further down inside. Also got two major fuel leaks dealt with at the end of the day. First was the fitting on the fuel line under the tank. It must have been there from day one, but yesterday it really showed itself. Turns out, even though it was "tight", it wasn't threaded on properly. Fortunately, I got a bite on the original threads and got it seated. The second was a repair someone had made to the fuel line. They had cut the copper line under the seat and installed a rubber hose to the filter. Usually, an accepted practice, but not when you use a hose that has "Not for fuel" written right on it.

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CAL(KS) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Location: Chapman, KS Points: 3800	Post Options Post Reply Quote CAL(KS) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 27 Sep 2015 at 9:08am
	some peoples kids. lol sometimes fixing other peoples repairs are worse than the original problem
	Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15

gemdozer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Points: 1013	Post Options Post Reply Quote gemdozer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 27 Sep 2015 at 1:21pm
	If your leaking final is empty you better removed the bottom final drive inspection cover and you could see what happen inside

BCPaul Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 24 Sep 2015 Location: Northern BC Points: 21	Post Options Post Reply Quote BCPaul Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 Sep 2015 at 3:05pm
	Oh boy, do I ever need my service manual. Not only do I have the final drive issue, now it seems that the final drive outboard bearing seal has packed it in. What was once a drip is now a flow. I just hope this doesn't mean that the shaft is wobbling around like a limp d*ck in a lard pail. I also found my serial number: HD 5 2539. I guess that makes this a 1948 model.

gemdozer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Points: 1013	Post Options Post Reply Quote gemdozer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 Sep 2015 at 4:07pm
	If he is leaking outside sprocket it is't a big job when it inside you need to removed the sprocket for change the seal

BCPaul Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 24 Sep 2015 Location: Northern BC Points: 21	Post Options Post Reply Quote BCPaul Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 Sep 2015 at 7:43pm
	I'm thinking it fooled me. When I looked at it the first time, the oil leaking was on the outside of the track sprocket, directly below the outboard bearing. But there was way too much oil there, and for some reason, I seem to recall that the outboard bearing took grease. On closer inspection, I found that it is, in reality, the seal on the inboard side of the sprocket, and the reason that it has developed into such a large leak, is that this is the seal that was responsible for emptying the final drive, and it is finally getting oil. But, without my manual, this is a guess at best. I was wondering as well, in regards to the serial number, when AC started adding the letter suffix to the HD5 designation. I scraped and sanded the old paint and crud off the area where the number is, and there is no B,C,D, etc. Was this added later in production? It's clean enough and clear enough that you can see where whoever stamped it had to re-do the "5" with a second whack, but I couldn't find the model stamp.

Ray54 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Paso Robles, Ca Points: 4713	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ray54 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 Sep 2015 at 12:02am
	As I understand it A in narrow tractor ag or dozer B is the wide tractor ag or dozer and G has the tractovator loader bucket factor mounted. I don't recall any other letters,but I have been wrong once or twice.

Dozer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Location: SW New York Points: 689	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dozer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 Sep 2015 at 8:53am
	I had a problem with oil on the sprocket of my HD6G. Thought it was the outboard seal. My post is on page 16 of this blog. "Id like a tube of NU-Thread please" 27 August 2013 I was unable to find it via the search. I had to page back to page 16

BCPaul Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 24 Sep 2015 Location: Northern BC Points: 21	Post Options Post Reply Quote BCPaul Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 Sep 2015 at 9:35am
	Thanks, Ray. "B" it is. Dozer - wow! Nicely done. After looking at the leak again, I'm pretty sure it is the inboard seal. The drip just happened to be above a slot in the sprocket, and due to the offset in the sprocket, made it look like it was the outboard side. But still a daunting repair. And thank you for looking back through the posts to find yours.

BCPaul Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 24 Sep 2015 Location: Northern BC Points: 21	Post Options Post Reply Quote BCPaul Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 Sep 2015 at 9:42am
	Looking back in the original post in this series, I found that Coke had identified my tractor as a "B" as well, so thank you to Coke also.

Coke-in-MN Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Afton MN Points: 41947	Post Options Post Reply Quote Coke-in-MN Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 Sep 2015 at 2:14pm
	I have a copy of HD5 manual (photo copy 200 sheets) I made a few years back - have couple left - postage is around $7 and I have about $20 in copy costs .
	Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."

Coke-in-MN Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Afton MN Points: 41947	Post Options Post Reply Quote Coke-in-MN Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 Sep 2015 at 2:21pm
	To change the seals on either side of sprocket the truck frame needs to be lowered and rolled forward . OR I posted how to do it without by cutting to rear bearing support on truck frame . The designation A, B, G, E were not in srl# stamped on machine . Have seen where rear sprocket nut has came loose then allowing seals to leak . The outboard bearing was lubed by rifle drilled axle shaft - so internal oil in final drive case also lubed that outboard bearing - may machines had a grease fitting installed in that outboard bearing housing .
	Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."

BCPaul Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 24 Sep 2015 Location: Northern BC Points: 21	Post Options Post Reply Quote BCPaul Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Oct 2015 at 9:55am
	Coke, thanks for the offer for the manual, but I have one coming via snail mail. Wish I would have known you had one, yours is about half what the other is. Oh well.

BCPaul Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 24 Sep 2015 Location: Northern BC Points: 21	Post Options Post Reply Quote BCPaul Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 04 Oct 2015 at 9:38am
	We had our first hard freeze Friday night. Checked the antifreeze on Saturday, it was good to nothing. Flushed it all out, installed new drain cock with extension hose on radiator and engine block. Next time it won't be an environmental disaster. Now we're good to -45*. Got my manual in the mail on Friday as well. Such a relief from guessing all the time. Lots of good reading (I have no life). One thing it didn't cover and maybe you all can help on this. There were no specs for the front mounted hydraulic pump. Was there a standard size for these pumps? Any info on gpm or psi would be appreciated. Thanks.

gemdozer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Points: 1013	Post Options Post Reply Quote gemdozer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 04 Oct 2015 at 12:58pm
	The HD6 GPM at 1000 PSI at 1800 RPM

Ray54 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Paso Robles, Ca Points: 4713	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ray54 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 04 Oct 2015 at 9:36pm
	Until Allis made there own dozer blades pump was part of what you bought with blade to turn tractor into dozer. Many companies made blades back in the day.A picture of blade would help identify what blade you have,and hopefully that would help I D pump. I have had some luck finding info you want if you can read name and numbers on your pump and doing google search.

Coke-in-MN Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Afton MN Points: 41947	Post Options Post Reply Quote Coke-in-MN Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05 Oct 2015 at 5:43pm
	the pump could be one of several mfg. Vickers, Hydreco , or other . then depending on the equipment that was powered GPM of pump would be different . The Hydreco pump used on the HD5G is 32 GPM at 1500 RPM and 1200 PSI I believe . The HD5G had a separate parts book for loader and attachments with AC numbers in it.
	Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."

BCPaul Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 24 Sep 2015 Location: Northern BC Points: 21	Post Options Post Reply Quote BCPaul Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 Oct 2015 at 10:39am
	Thanks guys. I've been a little busy elsewhere to look at the pump, but I think I may have time today to dig out the front end and see if I can find a tag. Somewhere down the line, one of the previous owners had some sort of plan for something big. It looks like he adapted a larger section of tank onto the original, or he replaced it completely. Guessing, I would have to say the tank on the machine now is at least 20 - 25 gals. And the valve he used is just wrong. It seems the detents are gone or it is a weird and wonderful application from something alien. He even had a stick custom carved to fit behind the handle to keep it from spinning completely around. I thought it was just a broken stick from a tree. I found out what it was for after I pried it out and threw it away. How dumb of me!

BCPaul Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 24 Sep 2015 Location: Northern BC Points: 21	Post Options Post Reply Quote BCPaul Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 Oct 2015 at 7:40pm
	OK, so I cleaned some of the paint off of the tag on the pump. Turns out it is a Hydreco. Got a "Customer Part Number": 300299. After the last nine, there is another digit ( 6 ), but it is in red, so I think it is part of the tag. Following the Customer Part Number is another area for stamping, and it has "UB 56" in it. The rest of the info on the tag is scattered and some digits may be missing or half visible. The gpm rating is probably there, but the only number I can see is a "2" with maybe a "5G" and "B1" following. I'm going to google it and see what I can find. Be right back. Yup. Nothing. I'll get a set of test gauges and connect them to see what's what. I was hoping for something in the neighbourhood of 30 - 35gpm like Coke had indicated, but I just don't see those numbers on the plate. 25gpm may work, it will be another experiment for another time. Thanks Coke for the general info, it gives me a basis to work from.

BCPaul Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 24 Sep 2015 Location: Northern BC Points: 21	Post Options Post Reply Quote BCPaul Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 Oct 2015 at 7:43pm
	Ray - don't know how I missed your post. I took some pics of the tag but they aren't really that good. The camera was inside the nosepiece, too close to the tag. See my post above for what I could get off of it. Thanks for the help.