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CA erratic spark

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dfwallis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dfwallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2025 at 5:32pm
Per the user manual it is the coil ht. I'll see if it has a low voltage option...I might need the accessory kit for that. I think i got the missed fields all mowed. I may have some more time tomorrow. I usually spend the last day of the trip putting things back in their place but not as much to do this time. It also has a spark burn time test.
1952 CA13092
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Les Kerf View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Les Kerf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2025 at 9:28pm
Originally posted by dfwallis dfwallis wrote:

Per the user manual it is the coil ht. I'll see if it has a low voltage option...

Ahhh... generally when I think of 'dwell' it is in reference to the amount of time (actually rotational degrees) that the points are closed; in which case if there was a double dwell period it would mean that the points didn't open that time around.

I would be greatly curious to see whether that anomaly occurred at the exact moment when a blip in the vacuum signal happened.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Les Kerf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2025 at 9:29pm
Originally posted by ACinSC ACinSC wrote:

Thanks for the explanation Les.

You are most welcome! Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dfwallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 10:20am
Additional info Compression 1 - 4 130, 129, 132, 129
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dfwallis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dfwallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 10:45am
When idling very slow it sounds almost like the key was switched off momentarily, but the voltage to the coil or signal to/from the points never shows any hint of a dropout on a voltmeter. Wish I had an oscope to look closer. Oh boy, a new toy...hard to get my tek 536 on the plane.

Edited by dfwallis - Yesterday at 12:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Les Kerf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 8:52pm
Originally posted by dfwallis dfwallis wrote:

When idling very slow it sounds almost like the key was switched off momentarily...
I have actually had this happen with poor contacts inside the switch

Originally posted by dfwallis dfwallis wrote:

...but the voltage to the coil or signal to/from the points never shows any hint of a dropout on a voltmeter. Wish I had an oscope to look closer. Oh boy, a new toy...hard to get my tek 536 on the plane.

My Fluke 88 meter will record Min/Max readings and would pick up a momentary disconnect; just watching the meter probably would not be noticeable though. I do have an oscilloscope too Smile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 hours 48 minutes ago at 11:45pm
Hi Guys!  Just getting on here this evening. Haven't been on in a while. Been pretty busy in the shop. Gary, if your still having problems with that Tractor, I can tell ya it ain't the Distributor that's fir' sure! That unit didn't miss a beat on the last run test on the 504. I ironed the couple issues out with that. You have another problem there. Maybe a sticky valve when running. Higher rpms the valve may not stick. Lower rpms it starts to hang up and cause a dead miss. Gotta' be something with the Tractor. Possibly a fuel issue. A lean condition off idle till you get into the enrichment circuit, then it runs better and the miss is gone because it has a fatter mix and runs good under load. It's gotta' be somethin' like that.
Steve@B&B
39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dfwallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 hours 58 minutes ago at 11:35am
Originally posted by Steve in NJ Steve in NJ wrote:

Hi Guys!  Just getting on here this evening. Haven't been on in a while. Been pretty busy in the shop. Gary, if your still having problems with that Tractor, I can tell ya it ain't the Distributor that's fir' sure! That unit didn't miss a beat on the last run test on the 504. I ironed the couple issues out with that. You have another problem there. Maybe a sticky valve when running. Higher rpms the valve may not stick. Lower rpms it starts to hang up and cause a dead miss. Gotta' be something with the Tractor. Possibly a fuel issue. A lean condition off idle till you get into the enrichment circuit, then it runs better and the miss is gone because it has a fatter mix and runs good under load. It's gotta' be somethin' like that.
Steve@B&B

Seems doubtful that it would be valves.  It had a complete, professional shop valve job.  Compression seems reasonably good.  The operating symptoms date back to the 80s or 90s (per my brother).  It isn't something new.  In the 80s, it had an automotive style toggle switch for ignition.  Same symptoms.  The key switch is new, the wiring hardness is 100% new.  It is burning very rich at all RPMs, but not enough for visible black smoke except under load.  It was burning leaner when I had installed the incorrect venturi (smaller diameter) in the carb last month.  When I installed the new, correct venturi, it is again blowing black specks of carbon onto the hood.  So, about the only thing left in common that hasn't been changed is the carburetor itself.  It has been thoroughly cleaned and all jets verified open, but the main jet was not changed because the screw driver slot was severely damaged and I didn't have a super tiny easy out (plus it's at a weird angle and not sure I can get to it).  I wanted to keep a TSX 486 carb on it and not switch to a Zenith, but I didn't find a source that I trusted so far.  I'll perform a few more ignition checks in July (e.g. direct wiring battery to coil, direct ground wire distributor to chassis, perhaps oscope some signals).  The GTC 505 provides oscope features but only for the high voltage signals.  Seems like slightly short sighted design.  

Anyway, I've been wanting to get a small portable oscope for some time (they're pretty cheap now).  My Tektronix 536 weighs about 500lbs and is a pain in the butt to move around.  I should have done some of that low voltage signal testing this last trip but I wanted to get it out in the field and use it some (the fun stuff) :)  The main glitches with that was the PTO shaft guard kept pulling too hard and stretching the chain clips (brand new it was very hard to turn in spots because it was severely warped), and on one occasion, the hydraulics would not go down (perhaps the hold valve stuck).  The rest of the trip was spent raising the tree canopy around the yard to make it easier to mow.  ~1 acre, 39 acres to go...I lost 6 pounds :)


Edited by dfwallis - 9 hours 5 minutes ago at 1:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Les Kerf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8 hours 42 minutes ago at 1:51pm
Originally posted by dfwallis dfwallis wrote:

...Seems doubtful that it would be valves.  It had a complete, professional shop valve job.  Compression seems reasonably good...
Originally posted by dfwallis dfwallis wrote:

Additional info Compression 1 - 4 130, 129, 132, 129 ...
Those are excellent compression numbers; this does not eliminate the possibility of sticky valve guides though, or too tight valve lash, thus the recommendation for vacuum gauge testing.

Originally posted by dfwallis dfwallis wrote:

The operating symptoms date back to the 80s or 90s ... it is again blowing black specks of carbon onto the hood...

Assuming the correct size of jet(s) then the fuel level in the float bowl must be too high; perhaps the float isn't floating? Confused  A crack somewhere inside the carburetor leaking excess fuel in where it shouldn't? I certainly dunno why, but if it has been blowing black specks onto the hood since the 1980's it must be getting too much fuel from somewhereOuch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dfwallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3 hours 5 minutes ago at 7:28pm
Originally posted by Les Kerf Les Kerf wrote:

Originally posted by dfwallis dfwallis wrote:

...Seems doubtful that it would be valves.  It had a complete, professional shop valve job.  Compression seems reasonably good...
Originally posted by dfwallis dfwallis wrote:

Additional info Compression 1 - 4 130, 129, 132, 129 ...
Those are excellent compression numbers; this does not eliminate the possibility of sticky valve guides though, or too tight valve lash, thus the recommendation for vacuum gauge testing.

Originally posted by dfwallis dfwallis wrote:

The operating symptoms date back to the 80s or 90s ... it is again blowing black specks of carbon onto the hood...

Assuming the correct size of jet(s) then the fuel level in the float bowl must be too high; perhaps the float isn't floating? Confused  A crack somewhere inside the carburetor leaking excess fuel in where it shouldn't? I certainly dunno why, but if it has been blowing black specks onto the hood since the 1980's it must be getting too much fuel from somewhereOuch

We set valve clearance at .012.  Doesn't mean it stayed at .012.  We had plans to recheck it at some point.  Maybe when it cools down a bit in the fall.  Needs to be done, regardless.  I don't know that it was blowing carbon specks in the 80s.  He only said it was misfiring similarly.  It did not misfire the last I used it before then, but started at some point and continues to this day, regardless of nearly everything being overhauled  to spec to the best of our and the machine shops ability.  I checked float level this week.  It was as close to 9/32s as I could measure.  The float does not leak.  It is dry as a bone.  I've checked it a dozen times.  I inspected the carburetor pretty carefully.  I saw no obvious cracks or leaks beside the one I sealed that was leaking fuel from the bowl at a very slow rate (the screw (plug) at the bottom front of the bowl).  I've ordered some tiny easy outs to try to fix it correctly.  All jets were replaced except the one at the bottom rear of the bowl.  There was no screwdriver slot material left to latch on to.

But, just because I express doubts about a particular cause, it does not mean that I've ruled ANYTHING out.  Until it's resolved, everything is suspect.  

I've ordered a new portable oscope that should allow me to actually correlate the points signal with the resulting spark of the secondary, Ch1 vs Ch2 (10000x reduction probe).


Edited by dfwallis - 1 hour 37 minutes ago at 8:56pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dfwallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2 hours 3 minutes ago at 8:30pm
New manifold looks like it has a flat that could be drilled/tapped to provide a vacuum gauge attachment point.  Don't think I want to do that.  Not finding a good attachment option. 

Edit:  I found a pic of an original manifold and it appears to have a pipe plug at that same flat spot.  If I were to drill and tap it I'd want to take it off so that I could clamp it to the drill press to drill a nice straight hole.  Not ready to do that at this point.


Edited by dfwallis - 11 minutes ago at 10:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Les Kerf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 minutes ago at 10:08pm
Originally posted by dfwallis dfwallis wrote:

New manifold looks like it has a flat that could be drilled/tapped to provide a vacuum gauge attachment point.  Don't think I want to do that.  Not finding a good attachment option.

Bummer. A vacuum gauge is a valuable troubleshooting tool.

I put a new manifold on my Model C a couple years ago and it had a small pipe plug that we pulled out to run the old Surge milking machine.
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