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WDDave 
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 Topic: Oil viscocity/ pressure
Posted: 23 Sep 2016 at 8:11pm |
Ok, just wanted your guys opinion if I should use thinner viscosity oil? I have removed the pan and valve cover on my 1950 WD gas engine just to clean out the sludge. Changed the oil filter with AGCO #70240912V (is not pleated but I guess you call it stuffed) Used 10W-40 oil. Before changing the filter and oil my oil pressure was barely in the normal range. Now the pressure maxes out the gauge.  This is at operating temp but only running for maybe 20 min. I don't know what pressure that really is I'm comfortable with 60psi in a small block chevy but with this bypass type system will too much pressure cause a problem? Does that mean that's the pressure going to the top end only? Not too concerned now but I will be using the tractor in the winter so oil will be even thicker. I have read the B oil filter experiment thread and didn't really see the answer I was looking for. Thanks in advance for any advice
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WD ,wide front, with loader
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DiyDave
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Posted: 23 Sep 2016 at 8:17pm |
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I think the factory gauge, in that position might equal about 25 PSi. Maxed out I think 30PSI. Keep in mind they are low revving motors, built to run for years , rule of thumb is 10 lbs per thousand of rpm...
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 23 Sep 2016 at 8:30pm |
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YEP... your fine Dave.. new oil / new filter = good pressure !!
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Ted in NE-OH
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Posted: 23 Sep 2016 at 10:08pm |
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The center tube may be pushed too far down in the housing. Not sure so check it,
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CA, WD, C, 3 Bs, 2 Gs, WC, I-400, 914
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Dan73
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Posted: 24 Sep 2016 at 3:28am |
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I use 10W30 in my d serries gas 226 d17 and gas 160 d15. I thought all those gas motors where built for 30 weight in the winter for sure. I would be worried that 40 weight wouldn't flow at startup on a cold day.
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DougS
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Posted: 24 Sep 2016 at 5:18am |
 Dan73 wrote:
I use 10W30 in my d serries gas 226 d17 and gas 160 d15. I thought all those gas motors where built for 30 weight in the winter for sure. I would be worried that 40 weight wouldn't flow at startup on a cold day. |
This ^^^ Film strength is much more important than pressure. The old saying that 80% of engine wear happens during warmup is true. An engine needs oil at its critical places as soon as possible. The thicker the oil, the slower it is going to flow. This higher oil pressure is due to the fact that the thicker oil is resisting flow when cold. I'd use a modern high quality 10W-30 oil and leave it at that. FWIW Allis Chalmers wanted SAE 10 oil in that engine during cold weather.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 24 Sep 2016 at 6:31am |
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You wouldn't have to worry about a 6 volt starter ever getting it started with 30 weight on a morning of zero degrees. Dad always had 10W in the Winter. Tractor had to start EVERY day.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 24 Sep 2016 at 8:29am |
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compare the viscosity of 10w40 to a 30 wt oil, or even a 10 wt oil at 20 degree ambient. That is the whole purpose of multi viscosity oils.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 24 Sep 2016 at 8:38am |
this shows straight weights, vs multiviscosity and why you should use use the new oils. It takes into effect the low winter temps and high summer temps to try to maintain a constant viscosity of the oil........... not 10 w 40, but you get the idea.
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Edited by steve(ill) - 24 Sep 2016 at 8:39am
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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DougS
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Posted: 24 Sep 2016 at 8:38am |
steve(ill) wrote:
compare the viscosity of 10w40 to a 30 wt oil, or even a 10 wt oil at 20 degree ambient. That is the whole purpose of multi viscosity oils. |
It's comparing apples to oranges. Chill a quart of SAE 10 and a quart of 10W-40 down to zero degrees and pour the two. You'll see a substantial difference between the two. The issue is the wax in the oil. If you want an oil that flows easier at cold temperatures, yet keeps its film strength, go with a synthetic.
Edited by DougS - 24 Sep 2016 at 8:39am
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Dan73
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Posted: 24 Sep 2016 at 8:54am |
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Synthetic is a great idea I run it all the time it provides alot more cold start protection. But if the motor was designed for 30 weight I wouldn't run 40 weight it gets into an issue of clearance in the bearings I think but I don't really know. That was why I said I run 10 30 because I think 10 40 is a little thick for the gas motors. But I would have to look it up for sure I haven't looked in a long time.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 24 Sep 2016 at 8:57am |
I would agree if you want better flow at LOW temps, then use synthetic.. But im not sure that is necessary in an old farm tractor motor.. 70 years ago the "cold" weather oil was called 10W ( w = winter).... the summer oil was called SAE 30 ( no W since it was summer oil)...
THEORETICALLY there is no difference in low temp between 10W , 10W30, and 10W40..... THEORETICALLY they have the same lube quality at COLD temps.
The upper number is the characteristic at 212 degrees.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 24 Sep 2016 at 9:02am |
this shows possibly what happened to some of the engines in the OLD DAYS when they forgot to change the SAE 30 OUT in winter.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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WDDave
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Posted: 24 Sep 2016 at 11:57am |
steve(ill) wrote:
this shows possibly what happened to some of the engines in the OLD DAYS when they forgot to change the SAE 30 OUT in winter.
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Steve , that video is an eye opener.. Sounds like 10W-30 is the way to go so out comes the 10W-40 and in with 10W-30. I was going to change the oil again anyway just to get more of the old nasty stuff out. I went with 10W-40 because I figured this thing is older than I am but the wear must not be as bad as I thought, doesn't seem to smoke either so the rings must not be too bad. Thanks to all for the info.
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WD ,wide front, with loader
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DiyDave
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Posted: 24 Sep 2016 at 6:23pm |
If you use the synthetic, its even better in the cold. Back on the farm, if we wanted to start one on a real cold day, we found that a perfection 500 kerosene heater fits right under the oil pan, on D series tractors, and negates any viscosity differences, after about a half hour... 
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Ken in Texas
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Posted: 24 Sep 2016 at 9:39pm |
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After reading a few posts on the forum lately about the removal of Zink additives from all over the counter name brand motor oils. I am thinking serious about adding ZDDP to the motor oil used in any flat tappet engine Car, Truck, or Tractor
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Allis dave
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Posted: 24 Sep 2016 at 10:21pm |
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Wow, that's some thick stuff. The music is a nice touch too
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Dipstick In
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Posted: 24 Sep 2016 at 10:48pm |
Back in 1971 when I was in the Shell Oil Company's dealer school, the multi-viscosity factor was explained like this;;;;;;;;;
There are polymers incorporated in the base oil, like a 10W, or weight, that are like little sprials, or kinda like cockleburrs, that unfold as they become heated. When these little "arms" unfold they build little interlocking traps that hold the oil in place, making the film strength increase from the base of 10, up through the numbers to maybe even the same net effect of lubricity as a 50W, or weight oil! I used to sell Shell's Super X, I think it was called, and it was a 10-50W oil! I used it exclusively in my 1973 Olds Custom Cruiser, and at about 80-90,000 miles for some reason the manifold cracked. When I took it off and looked in the valley, there was no sludge, and there was not even any discoloration like it should have been! Everything was clean and bright metal yet. I hope this explains things for you guys. And Steve, we always used to call that "W", weight, and not a winter oil.
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 10:10pm |
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Something else to consider is that molasses trying to oil the rods in the B125 engine in the B, C, and CA on a below 0 morning. That's why I have Mobil 1 in my CA and Oliver 60. (The 60 engine is very similar to the B125)
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 10:20pm |
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Your right Joe... EVERYONE calls the W = weight......... Always have... If you look it up or talk to the oil experts they will tell you it actually ment "winter"..... but very few people think that.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Tbone95
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Posted: 26 Sep 2016 at 7:19am |
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Yep, it's not "Weight" it's "Winter" for cold temp flow characteristic. I know people by the 1000's including service and tech people call it "weight", but that doesn't make it so.
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DougS
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Posted: 26 Sep 2016 at 8:46am |
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The viscosity calculation for the "W" number is done differently from the calculation for the other number. The W number defines the cranking equivalent, not the flow characteristic. Sometimes they are close, sometimes not. The former head mechanic at my ex employer always bought 15W-40 for all vehicles, new and old. That stuff poured like maple syrup even at summer temperatures. It was like molasses in the winter. For some reason the vehicles only lasted about 80,000 miles. The new head mechanic switched to 5W-30 and engine life more than doubled.
Oil flow is more important than oil pressure. It's as simple as that.
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Dick L
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Posted: 26 Sep 2016 at 11:15am |
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With heavy oil I would only wonder if I was getting enough oil thru that tiny oil line to the rocker arm assembly. With that pressure you probly are though. Higher pressure is probly due to the filter and will most likely go back down when it has flowed thru it for a while.
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DougS
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Posted: 26 Sep 2016 at 12:06pm |
Dick L wrote:
With heavy oil I would only wonder if I was getting enough oil thru that tiny oil line to the rocker arm assembly. With that pressure you probly are though. Higher pressure is probly due to the filter and will most likely go back down when it has flowed thru it for a while. |
Higher oil pressure may indicate that something is clogged up somewhere in the system. Let them scratch their heads over that, Dick.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 26 Sep 2016 at 12:18pm |
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even more reason to use a 10W multi-viscosity oil and not a straight weight.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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DougS
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Posted: 26 Sep 2016 at 1:17pm |
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I remember when we could buy 10W-10 and 20W-20. A question for the studii: Just what did those numbers mean?
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WDDave
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Posted: 26 Sep 2016 at 5:31pm |
Dick L wrote:
With heavy oil I would only wonder if I was getting enough oil thru that tiny oil line to the rocker arm assembly. With that pressure you probly are though. Higher pressure is probly due to the filter and will most likely go back down when it has flowed thru it for a while.
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I had the same concern so I took the valve cover off and ran the engine. I had oil dripping from every rocker arm and much to my surprise I think the new oil has cleaned the inside to some extent because the top of the head under the valve cover was all varnished up and nasty looking before now it is almost clean and actually looks good. That stuff probably went to my new oil filter so I see another filter coming when I change the oil out for the 10W-30.
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WD ,wide front, with loader
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Dan73
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Posted: 26 Sep 2016 at 5:35pm |
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If you get lucky enough to get one of those leaking valve cover gaskets you know you have oil flowing through the motor.... I ran my d17 for a year like that it didn't leak enough to get me to replace it but i did have to keep an eye on the oil level that summer. Ironically I fixed the gasket this spring and half way through the summer the old motor finally said enough is enough. Can't complain though the shape it was in when I got it apart I am amazed it ran at all 5 years ago when it woke it from its 15 year nap.
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