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Any body have reference pictures for a WD?

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Pa.Pete View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 Oct 2010 at 5:20pm
I was wondering if any body has any picture of an original WD? I an restoring one now and I would like to get the parts painted the correct colors. I've seen many tractors some with black carbs some orange, some black starters and some orange ones, you get the picture.
It's not a concourse restoration but I would like it to be some what correct.
Any help would be appreciated.
 
Thanks,
Pete
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2010 at 7:36pm
What year?? and is it a magneto or distributor?? Late (1952-53) models had black Allis-Chalmers decals on the hood and a black "WD" decal to match on the side of the radiator.....older models had Blue decals on the hood and no model designation on the side of the radiator. Front rims/wheels were all orange.....rear rims are silver/aluminum. Starters and Gens were always orange. Headlights were definately black in later years and maybe all the way thru. I remember Dad's 53 having the distributor black and it was original paint. Personally I like black starters and gens.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2010 at 7:39pm
Look at this video of the 45. It gets sprayed orange with everything but the wheels, head lights and generator on it. My 45 hasn't ever been repainted and it has Orange on the genny. To each his own I guess. Painting the genny, starter, a other stuff black does add a little pleasant contrast to a tractor. JMO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYH3q9nJ-fc
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2010 at 8:07pm
The painting booth sequence was old footage because that is a WD....look at the carb and manifold.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pa.Pete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2010 at 8:35pm
Originally posted by DrAllis DrAllis wrote:

What year?? and is it a magneto or distributor?? Late (1952-53) models had black Allis-Chalmers decals on the hood and a black "WD" decal to match on the side of the radiator.....older models had Blue decals on the hood and no model designation on the side of the radiator. Front rims/wheels were all orange.....rear rims are silver/aluminum. Starters and Gens were always orange. Headlights were definately black in later years and maybe all the way thru. I remember Dad's 53 having the distributor black and it was original paint. Personally I like black starters and gens.
 
My WD is a 1951 , so I guess blue decals, it also has a distributor on it but I don't know if it is original or not also has been converted to 12v. I never knew that about the decals.
Thanks for the info everyone, thats why this is my favorite forrum!
 
Pete


Edited by Pa.Pete - 29 Oct 2010 at 8:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimIA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2010 at 9:05pm
Are you sure about the blue decals on the early WDs?  I thought it was black lettering with the long A and S.  Heres a few shots of my Dad's low hour 1953 WD.  The generator on it is indeed black but I do not believe it is original or not.  I do believe the carbs, air cleaners, generator and starter came to the factory black and were painted orange with the rest of the tractor.  I know the distributors were painted as well as the wires.  My 1953 WD has been on the farm since new and has the original wires on it, they were painted and there is a huge glob of paint on the frame that dripped off of the distributor.  Hard to recreate that in a restoration! lol

Jim








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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pa.Pete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2010 at 9:29pm
Originally posted by JimIA JimIA wrote:

Are you sure about the blue decals on the early WDs?  I thought it was black lettering with the long A and S.  Heres a few shots of my Dad's low hour 1953 WD.  The generator on it is indeed black but I do not believe it is original or not.  I do believe the carbs, air cleaners, generator and starter came to the factory black and were painted orange with the rest of the tractor.  I know the distributors were painted as well as the wires.  My 1953 WD has been on the farm since new and has the original wires on it, they were painted and there is a huge glob of paint on the frame that dripped off of the distributor.  Hard to recreate that in a restoration! lol

Jim
 
Jim,
I think what DrAllis was saying was pre 1952 the decals were blue.
Thanks for the pics.
Pete
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave in il Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2010 at 9:40pm
Most tractors had the gen & starter rebuilt or replaced at some point and the rebuilder usually painted them black.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mojo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2010 at 9:45pm
Grandpas 49 WD has never been touched and the decals are black and it also has the WD decal on the radiator shell. The Allis has a curved leg on the left side of the A. My WD45 has block lettering but it was repainted in the mid 70's so I don't trust it.

mojo/Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2010 at 11:14pm
Long "A" and long "S" decals were always blue I thought....check with Lyle Wacker in Osmund, Nebraska.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2010 at 8:20am
No WD decal until sometime in 1950 according to Lyle Wacker when I talked to him a couple years ago. I looked at and studied quite a few old color ads and videos and in every one the starter is orange and the generator is black. The decal placement that JimIA shows is accurate. All headlights are black but I noticed that on some photos the light stem is orange and in some it is black. I think this is because sometimes the lights were all the way in and sometimes they were slid out some. The stem welded to the gas tank support is always orange. The steering wheel is always orange. 

Here are a couple photos of my WD. Sorry, I don't have any of the rear or right side down loaded. I placed all the decals exactly as they were on the old photos and films, concentrating on one particular tractor. This one particular tractor had the traction booster decal off centered quite a ways on the battery box so that's how I did mine. Hope this helps some.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TedBuiskerN.IL. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2010 at 8:57am
There is a book out called "Original ALLIS CHALMERS 1933-1957"  by Guy Fay and Andy Kraushaar, that goes into detail on decals and decal placement on Allis tractors.  I highly recommend this book to restorers.  They did a lot of research for this book.   That being said, just because the factory had specific placements for decals, that doesn't mean the workers necessarily put them in the correct places.  So, you may have an original WD with the decals located at the bottom of the radiator shroud or the top.
Also, the original drawings for the model designation decals was drawn in June of 1951, so prior to that time there would have been NO WD, B, or CA decals on tractors from the factory.  A rule of thumb could be that if a WD came from the factory with the "tall", or WD45 head.  It should have the WD decal, if it came with the short WC stlye head, it should not have a model decal.  The switch to the "Tall" head came in mid 1951, or the same general time as the model decals started.
I was unable to locate the information on the color change from blue to black, or the change from the long A&S to the short letters, but I know the information is in some of the books I have because I remember reading about it. HTH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Ahart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2010 at 10:20am
Yes, from what I have read, model designation decals appeared in 1951 as Ted mentioned.  Below are some examples of differences in placement.

Here is JohnCinMd's excellent original WD.  The location of the model designation decal agrees with JimIA's WD.



Here is a WD that is on eBay right now.  The model designation decal appears to be original, but is placed several inches higher.



FWIW, the model designation decals are in the same place on my 1951 and 1956 Bs. 

Good thread...
A-C Weight ID reference and other goodies at brianahart.net
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Jasper co. Ia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2010 at 10:57am
My gut feeling is maybe sometimes the generators got painted with the tractor and sometimes they didn't. In the "Plowing For Profit" video I have, they're using a WD that has black letters on the hood with a long A and S, no WD decal, and the generator is black.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pa.Pete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2010 at 3:24pm
Thanks for the info everyone, I am open to any I can get.
 
Lonn,
That's a sharp looking Allis you have. What are the white decals that are on your wheels?
 
Pete
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2010 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by Pa.Pete Pa.Pete wrote:

Thanks for the info everyone, I am open to any I can get.
 
Lonn,
That's a sharp looking Allis you have. What are the white decals that are on your wheels?
 
Pete

Thanks. The decals are labeled "Hydromatic Tires" and then it goes on to explain that these tires are filled with an antifreeze solution ya,ya,ya........keep enough air to maintain 28 psi in the front tires and 12 psi in the rear tires. Allis named calcium chloride filled tires "Hydromatic Tires". They were the pioneer in calcium chloride filled tires for weight. It was cheap and kept the tractor more stabile than iron weight and reduced wear on the axle bearings supposedly. Only on side of the tractor gets these decals. Your choice which side as in studying old footage it appears that either side could have the decals.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2010 at 5:33pm
From what I can seeon the video I posted, all shots show the generator being black. The part where they are painting the tractor, you can see the lights are on but covered. You can't see the genny in that shot but if it was left black, it would almost have to have been added after painting.
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TedBuiskerN.IL. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2010 at 6:01pm
The book I have says the WD decal bottom should be lined up with the lower hood screw which is where it is in Brian Aharts picture.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken in Texas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2010 at 8:05pm
All this talk about decal placement and the color of starters, gennys, and radiators and such on a WD or a WD45 don't make much sense if the Orange  paint used is something other than PO#1 or a reasonable accepted facimile of the original PO#1. There seems to be a disrespect by many restorers to chose a appropriate Orange for the vintage of the Allis tractor being restored. 
I like PO#1, PO#2 and Corporate Orange if used correctly.
   
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