| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Ross D. 
Silver Level
Joined: 02 Sep 2013
Location: Erin, Ont.
Points: 338
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: Gas Tank Leak - 'D' Grader
Posted: 02 Nov 2018 at 1:00pm |
Hi. I have a 1967 D Grader with a slow leak in the area of the air breather bracket.  The welded on bracket has five threaded holes: A,B,D,& E are for 1/2" cap screws. Hole C is the leaking hole and it appears to be about 1-1/4" deep with about 1-1/8" of thread. Since hole C 'bottoms out', I assume that there is a plate welded inside the tank too.   Notice that the plate is welded about 1/8" from the tank. There appears to be a gasket type material in that spacing. The leak appears to extend from the hole C and the 1/8" spacings.  Does anyone know what hole C could be purposed for? How would you fix this leak? Ross D.
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
NomoreJohnDeere
Silver Level
Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Location: Missouri Ozarks
Points: 308
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 Nov 2018 at 5:08pm |
|
In the diagram it shows a triangle bolt hole pattern
1A "service only"
Put a bolt in it?
|
|
HD3
|
|
Ross D.
Silver Level
Joined: 02 Sep 2013
Location: Erin, Ont.
Points: 338
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 Nov 2018 at 7:54pm |
|
Hello N J D.
The 1A bracket appears to be an adaptor plate that had to be used when the loader assembly was installed onto the grader. There has not been a cap screw in hole C since we owned the grader ( 15 yrs + ).
Why leak now? LOL.
What kind of a sealer would you use on the cap screw threads?
Ross.
|
|
Ross D.
Silver Level
Joined: 02 Sep 2013
Location: Erin, Ont.
Points: 338
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 5:10pm |
|
I cleaned the threads in the hole and on a capscrew. Put plumbers putty on both items, then put it together with a lockwasher. The threaded capscrew is 1 1/2" long. Filled the tank 1/2 full. Drip, drip, drip. Next ------------ ? I assume that it now goes to a repair shop. Any other suggestions? Ross.
|
|
NomoreJohnDeere
Silver Level
Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Location: Missouri Ozarks
Points: 308
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 5:35pm |
|
Is it only leaking out that hole?
Making it's way to that hole from some other place?
Weld it shut ?
Grind the plate off to see what's going on. This could be the first sign of a larger rust issue under it.
They make sealants rated for fuel, not plumbers putty.
Can you see into the tank to get an idea of what is on the inside?
|
|
HD3
|
|
ac fleet
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Location: Arrowsmith, ILL
Points: 2194
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 6:43pm |
I am thinking that the gasket material has given away and the plate would need to be removed to see if there is a hole rusted in the tank!---NOT a fun job for sure! Also would the tank sealer that they put in tractor tanks work in your case??? thanks; ac fleet
|
|
Eric B
Orange Level
Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Location: British Columbi
Points: 887
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 6:50pm |
Putting a bolt in there is definitely worth trying... I would smear it full of Permatex Aviation gasket sealer but I'm sure other kinds would work too. Please let us know how you make out, thanks.
|
|
Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal!
|
|
Ray54
Orange Level Access
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Location: Paso Robles, Ca
Points: 4340
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 2:46pm |
All kinds of possible fixes,some not cheap and easy.I believe there is a hydraulic fitting style that is the same as NC bolt threads and they use a o-ring to seal you could try.
But also think Permatex sealer could be a lot better around fuel than plumbers putty. Besides the Aviation that can be real hard take apart latter they number 2 I think they call it that is like tar and never sets up hard that has saved me many times.
If it is rusting out and you don't want to weld,J-B Weld or other types of glue work around fuel. I have a 100 g transfer tank that the J-B patch is getting close to 20 years on.
|
|
wfmurray
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Bostic NC
Points: 1225
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 6:08pm |
|
I used licquied solder on a gas tank once.Run bolt in with sealent on it and a flat washer.Sealent on threads ,washer and bolt head and all over it when tighten down .
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 29422
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 7:13pm |
|
I suspect someone else threaded that hole, should not have been from the factory, are generally there to allow gasses behind the plate to escape during welding, have seen that on other machinery.
Plumbers putty will not work in fuels, is not much more than clay with a mineral oil binder, fuel dissolves the oil, the clay washes away.
Edited by DMiller - 04 Nov 2018 at 7:14pm
|
|
Ross D.
Silver Level
Joined: 02 Sep 2013
Location: Erin, Ont.
Points: 338
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 7:25am |
Good Rainy Morning (again). A quick update and thank you for all the suggestions. I tested the tank by tapping, threading a 1 1/2' bolt, putting plumbing putty on the threads, and inserted the bolt tightly into the freshly re-tapped hole. We filled the tank with water. It started leaking shortly. I added about 5# air pressure. Faster leak. It ran out from behind the plate, (top, sides and bottom).    Today I will try to reseal the hole, then I will retest. Ross.
|
|
Jim.ME
Orange Level
Joined: 19 Nov 2016
Location: Maine
Points: 934
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 9:09am |
|
How thick is the plate? How does the thickness compare to the bolt length? I think the bolts should be shorter than the plate is thick or they will push on the side of the tank increasing the gap between the plate and tank wall. Given the plate is stitch welded on I would try to remove it and see just how it is built. The side wall of the tank may have rusted through over the years from moisture between the plate and the tank. Running a bolt into C may be opening the crack/compromised area up more. If this is the case it is unlikely sealer will help fix the problem.
|
|
Jim.ME
Orange Level
Joined: 19 Nov 2016
Location: Maine
Points: 934
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 9:32am |
|
Raining here as well so had a few minutes to kill. In looking at the parts books on Minnpar's site, they all show 3/8" by 1/2"-3/4" long bolts in air cleaner brackets. I know the books aren't always right, and there were often changes made, but is it possible someone drilled these out to 1/2". The more I looked at this; the more I believe the bracket is just stitch welded to the tank wall and the wall has rusted through behind the plate.
|
|
Ross D.
Silver Level
Joined: 02 Sep 2013
Location: Erin, Ont.
Points: 338
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 10:14am |
Good morning. The Sun is finally shinning. 1" of snow on the ground. Boat, on the trailer, is still sitting outside; but all the A C is inside. Update on the 'D' grader gas tank. I cleaned hole 'C' and tried some Permatex in the hole first. I tried to get it in the hole as best as possible. This hole did go strait into the tank. After it hardened, the water test still showed leakage all around the plate. With the small grinder and Dremel, I cleaned the welded stitches and the 1/8" gasket area (the meat in this sandwich. LOL). I used JB liquid weld to the area all around the plate/tank.  I now have it on the test rack and it appears to be holding with a full tank of water and about 5# air pressure.   The tank appears to be very clean inside. I borrowed a LED scope and looked around the inside. Clean. I could not see properly the hole/leak area. I would like to put an inside liquid sealer in the tank, before I re-install the tank. I can not find a dealer, or distributor, for 'Red Kote' here in Ontario. Still looking. A big thank you to everyone who posted a reply. I appreciate getting your help. Ross D.
|
|
Eric B
Orange Level
Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Location: British Columbi
Points: 887
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 1:00pm |
Thanks for the update and taking the time to include pictures along with the project. Fun to see glimpses of your other A-C's. If I were you I'd be very careful which sealer to choose to put inside the fuel tank. I've had several experiences where sealers of different brands have gone bad and become a mess. Some sealers react to fuel additives and that might not be listed on the product instructions. For my part to have a clean and repaired tank is best. The last very successful repair was on the bottom of my Allis B gas tank. I used Permatex gas tank repair... awesome stuff. I had done the same repair on this tank two years earlier with JB weld and thought I had a permanent fix but when it started leaking again the patches came off like banana peels and I was not impressed. You'll have a bit of a task on hand to get every last bit of H2O moisture dried out of your tank before you put it to use.
|
|
Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal!
|
|
pinball
Orange Level Access
Joined: 28 May 2014
Location: missouriu
Points: 5955
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 3:32pm |
|
if is it still leaking around the bolt use thread tape to seal the threads.
|
|
Ross D.
Silver Level
Joined: 02 Sep 2013
Location: Erin, Ont.
Points: 338
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 26 Nov 2018 at 8:10am |
Good morning. I thought that I would give you an update. This gas tank problem, along with other fixes to the grader, seems to be taking a long time. After water testing, the tank seemed O K. I dried the tank as best I could. I used a towel, with a string attached, and was able to sop up most of the water. I then attached the vacuum cleaner hose to the air outlet on the furnace. This gently introduced warm, dryer air to the tank. The 1/2' gas outlet was left open, and I left it to run for a day. It appears to have worked very well.( my Redneck creations sometimes work alright).   I poured a litre of oil into the tank and rolled it around for a few days. I have now installed the tank on the grader and filled the tank with fresh gas to about 3/4 full( above the repaired area). Everything appears to be O K.   I would like to thank everyone who commented on this issue. All your ideas and recommendations were carefully considered. Between the 'FORUM and Google. you probably have been helping with my A C sanity. Ross D.
|
|
Eric B
Orange Level
Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Location: British Columbi
Points: 887
|
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 26 Nov 2018 at 12:25pm |
|
Thanks for having shared the succession of your project and taking the time to post pictures along with it. We all benefit... it's a bit like being in a school class. Seeing your bright shop and the good paint on your equipment is like a breath of fresh air :)
|
|
Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal!
|
|
