AC HD-10 W Restoration Help

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     Hey guys I'm new to the forum and I'm glad this is here for the help. I understand Most everything and how it is "suppose" to work but that's not the case here.  The Crawler was my dads and it ran when it was parked but that was 30 years ago. He wants to scrap it and I said no I'm gonna restore it so If I don't fix it he gets his way.  I pulled the dozer out 2 days ago and started to take stuff apart clean and look everything over.  The engine is seized from sitting, I hooked 2 brand new battery's and wires to it and I get the hard click from the starter and the cooling fan does a very short twitch. Lifters do not move whatsoever. so I believe the crank if free and the pistons are seized from sitting.  I took out all 4 injectors out and put a bit of diesel fuel in each cylinder to sit over night and I'm gonna try again tomorrow. I also drained all the oil and there was some water in there that had frozen and cracked my pan I'm going to weld that up tomorrow but at least there was still oil above the water. btw it has the Detroit 4-71 motor. My biggest problem that I need some help on would be that it has been out of gear for all that time and now none of them will engage. The Direct and Indirect lever works and also the rear clutch levers feel like they are working properly. The Gear selector and the master clutch will not engage in any position.  I cant tell how I would get in there to free them up but I'm thinking its gonna be a pita from what I can see.  I have the floor pan off now and the opening to the master clutch. I have also greased every fitting I could find, even the one by the master.  Any help would be greatly appreciated as I can find hardly any info on these old dozers. Thank you for any help in advance.   

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Real_TL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 09 Jun 2014 Location: Rochester, NY Points: 20	Post Options Post Reply Quote Real_TL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: AC HD-10 W Restoration Help Posted: 09 Jun 2014 at 11:21pm
	Hey guys I'm new to the forum and I'm glad this is here for the help. I understand Most everything and how it is "suppose" to work but that's not the case here. The Crawler was my dads and it ran when it was parked but that was 30 years ago. He wants to scrap it and I said no I'm gonna restore it so If I don't fix it he gets his way. I pulled the dozer out 2 days ago and started to take stuff apart clean and look everything over. The engine is seized from sitting, I hooked 2 brand new battery's and wires to it and I get the hard click from the starter and the cooling fan does a very short twitch. Lifters do not move whatsoever. so I believe the crank if free and the pistons are seized from sitting. I took out all 4 injectors out and put a bit of diesel fuel in each cylinder to sit over night and I'm gonna try again tomorrow. I also drained all the oil and there was some water in there that had frozen and cracked my pan I'm going to weld that up tomorrow but at least there was still oil above the water. btw it has the Detroit 4-71 motor. My biggest problem that I need some help on would be that it has been out of gear for all that time and now none of them will engage. The Direct and Indirect lever works and also the rear clutch levers feel like they are working properly. The Gear selector and the master clutch will not engage in any position. I cant tell how I would get in there to free them up but I'm thinking its gonna be a pita from what I can see. I have the floor pan off now and the opening to the master clutch. I have also greased every fitting I could find, even the one by the master. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I can find hardly any info on these old dozers. Thank you for any help in advance.

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Real_TL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 09 Jun 2014 Location: Rochester, NY Points: 20	Post Options Post Reply Quote Real_TL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 Jun 2014 at 11:23pm


JC-WI Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: wisconsin Points: 33663	Post Options Post Reply Quote JC-WI Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jun 2014 at 12:06am
	Real TL, I like the looks of the early HD series, and yours has a near purfect grill from what I see. You may want to take the starter off, so as to pry on the teeth to back it up and forward...Go to http://kingofobsolete.ca./ and look for the thread there about making a starter replacement that you bolt in, in place of the electric and then you use a big bar on that to start wiggling a stuck engine loose. Here is the link... http://kingofobsolete.ca./KING'S_BAR_STARTER_WEBPAGE.html "Pouring some diesel in"...You know every enjector has to be reset for the engine to run right, right? but... while injectors are out, did you stick a wire down to see if any water was in the cylinders?... Remember that the intake valves are the ports in the lower cylinder... maybe you should check out the blower to see if that is froze, rusted up or full of acorns or whatever... that has to spin freely. Did it still have antifrizz in the radiator, and up to full mark? Was the can on the exhaust without holes in it? Take the airbox covers off and take a good look at the ports in the cylinders. You will get a better idea of what your in for maybe. There are some very knowledgeable fellows on the board here so be patient, somebody will come along and have better info. In the meantime, just gotta keep asking questions and putting up pictures. LOL
	He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."

Real_TL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 09 Jun 2014 Location: Rochester, NY Points: 20	Post Options Post Reply Quote Real_TL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jun 2014 at 12:08am
	haha yea, had no clue about the injectors having to be reset but I figured they probably were not in working order anymore. I looked in with a flash light and they were dry before i put some fuel in there. Then I could get a shine from the fluid sitting in there. Now that you say the blower my dad decided to mention somthing about a cracked lobe but he said it was running so who knows I'm kinda blind on this haha. So I have to check that out tomorrow too. Will that being froze up cause it not to turn over also? And the exhaust was modified at some point but it has no holes and still had a good flipper on the top that was closed. I'm not sure what you mean about the air box covers, that may have been modified also, Thanks for the response

Real_TL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 09 Jun 2014 Location: Rochester, NY Points: 20	Post Options Post Reply Quote Real_TL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jun 2014 at 12:14am
	That bar starter Is an awesome idea, I've never had to unseize a motor before but I bet that helps, Only problem is I'd need a junk starter haha

gemdozer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Points: 942	Post Options Post Reply Quote gemdozer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jun 2014 at 7:59am
	If you have a crack rotor in blower the motor should't turning

Real_TL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 09 Jun 2014 Location: Rochester, NY Points: 20	Post Options Post Reply Quote Real_TL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jun 2014 at 8:16am
	yea I don't know much about what is going on with blower but that's coming off today and I'm going to find out whats going on, I will replace it if I have too, I'm more concerned with the shifting problem right now because if I can't get it in any gear or fix that problem then this project is a wash. The motor is easy to access and parts are available for that. Thanks for the help guys, I'll post some pictures later.

Real_TL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 09 Jun 2014 Location: Rochester, NY Points: 20	Post Options Post Reply Quote Real_TL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jun 2014 at 9:46am
	just got the blower off and it turns over fine, so I found the motors culprit. :)

JC-WI Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: wisconsin Points: 33663	Post Options Post Reply Quote JC-WI Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jun 2014 at 10:23am
	Airbox covers... Need a Roots? http://www.ebay.com/itm/DETROIT-4-71-SUPERCHARGER-/331225551011#ht_25wt_1153
	He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."

Real_TL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 09 Jun 2014 Location: Rochester, NY Points: 20	Post Options Post Reply Quote Real_TL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jun 2014 at 5:11pm
	thanks for that ebay link jc, hopefully I can win the bidding in the end, this will give me some time to change fluids in the rear, and I still have to get the master clutch to break free, We have a lot more torn apart so we can clean and paint things, I have to get the fuel tank cleaned out and the pan fixed still so I have a lot to work on while I'm waiting. We got the shift linkage freed up today. Here are some pics,

Real_TL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 09 Jun 2014 Location: Rochester, NY Points: 20	Post Options Post Reply Quote Real_TL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Jun 2014 at 5:17pm


JC-WI Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: wisconsin Points: 33663	Post Options Post Reply Quote JC-WI Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jun 2014 at 11:15pm
	Just purchased 3/4" X 36" hoses from Surplus Center... made in USA, and look good. Was cheaper to buy all four for the hyd. cylinders than to have two made up locally. I know you haven't got your HD-10 W running yet... but just in case you start looking for a hose for your front hyd. pump pressure line, here are a couple 1" hoses... 1" X 24" 1 NPTM X 1 NPTM 2750 PSI HYD HOSE, 2 wire braid, 11,000 Burst item number: 919-2224 PRICE: $23.95 http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Hose-and-Hose-Assemblies/Hydraulic-Hose-Assemblies/1-X-24-1-NPTM-X-1-NPTM-2750-PSI-HYD-HOSE-919-2224.axd 1" X 18" item number: 919-2218 price $20.95
	He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."

Real_TL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 09 Jun 2014 Location: Rochester, NY Points: 20	Post Options Post Reply Quote Real_TL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Jun 2014 at 8:59am
	ohh awesome, thanks for the link, after she is all up and going again I'm gonna try and re run some new "gas" hydraulic lines a lot neater than they were before so that will be perfect to connect the ends.

dadsdozerhd5b Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 27 Sep 2009 Location: lansdale pa. Points: 527	Post Options Post Reply Quote dadsdozerhd5b Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jun 2014 at 7:01am
	I believe the steering clutches are dry on that machine. once you get it running don't be surprised if they are stuck. maybe pull that machine with another and operate the clutches and see if they are free. if they are wet clutches, should not be an issue. looks like a fun project. good luck.
	HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE.

Real_TL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 09 Jun 2014 Location: Rochester, NY Points: 20	Post Options Post Reply Quote Real_TL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jun 2014 at 9:29pm
	I'm pretty sure all of the clutches are dry from what I have read. I know for sure the master is frozen engaged, I'm pretty sure it is the linkage so I am gonna try the lube and cleaning technique they have in the manual with the fuel and running the motor to see if that will break it free. I have pulled it with the excavator and tryed it in gear and everything was engaged but have not checked the rear steering clutches. Would they be stuck engaged? my handles move free but I know that doesn't say much it has been sitting a long time.

JC-WI Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: wisconsin Points: 33663	Post Options Post Reply Quote JC-WI Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jun 2014 at 9:50pm
	Todd, ask your dad how hard that clutch was when he last ran it... It's an over center clutch and it will "SNAP" when newly adjusted. So if it were tight like that, and sitting a number of years, it might take a serious pull to get it to 'unsnap' LOL
	He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."

Real_TL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 09 Jun 2014 Location: Rochester, NY Points: 20	Post Options Post Reply Quote Real_TL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jun 2014 at 9:51pm
	Some painting of the parts, Rebuilt blower is ordered and on the way also.

CAL(KS) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Location: Chapman, KS Points: 3746	Post Options Post Reply Quote CAL(KS) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jun 2014 at 9:51pm
	in reference to the master clutch, not the steering clutches. if it is the linkage, then what good is "washing" the clutch going to do? if you have the cover off, see if the fork is moving the release bearing. you can also try adjusting the clutch out by turning the adjuster plate counter clockwise. grease all the zerks inside that housing, verify that the cams arnt frozen and that the clutch releases over center. that doesnt mean it wont be stuck, but will verify the linkage is functioning. we used to have a 10W, been in that housing many times, had to rebuild the fork and have the bearing housing built up and machined as the release bearing housing tabs were worn half through. once you have the master clutch working, you can load the dozer by pulling something or using a blade if you have it. once the load is applied then use the steering clutches to see if they function properly and release. DONT JERK, you are asking for trouble anytime you jerk the machine or pull it around trying to break things free. the final pinions will break teeth, trust me, Edited by CAL(KS) - 14 Jun 2014 at 9:53pm
	Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15

Real_TL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 09 Jun 2014 Location: Rochester, NY Points: 20	Post Options Post Reply Quote Real_TL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jun 2014 at 9:53pm
	haha I believe it its gonna be a pita to get it free, He says he don't remember the last time he ran it was before I was born literally lol

Real_TL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 09 Jun 2014 Location: Rochester, NY Points: 20	Post Options Post Reply Quote Real_TL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jun 2014 at 9:57pm
	I have the baker blade for it, I'm almost for sure its the cams that are froze. I wasent sure exctally how the clutch worked in there and how to adjust it, I have greased the fitting inside the housing. Is that something I can heat or should I tear it all apart? Its like impossible to work in there with all the levers and crap in the way, Is there a way to break it free without tearing too far into it? Edited by Real_TL - 14 Jun 2014 at 9:59pm

John NWMo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Cameron, Mo Points: 60	Post Options Post Reply Quote John NWMo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Jun 2014 at 10:46am
	Hi, Have a Factory shop manual that covers HD series tractors, Detroit engines, Baker dozers & pumps. If you dont have access to one it might be a big help to you. Got it from an old navy seabee guy. Need $35.00 plus shipping. Will have it at the Lathrop,Mo Allis Show.Do you know if any one from your area will be coming to it? John

Real_TL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 09 Jun 2014 Location: Rochester, NY Points: 20	Post Options Post Reply Quote Real_TL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Jun 2014 at 5:08pm
	Do you have a paypal account that I could send you the money through? My email is HiltonGhost@yahoo.com Shoot me an email and we can probably work something out on the manual.

ac_sd Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 23 Apr 2011 Points: 194	Post Options Post Reply Quote ac_sd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Jun 2014 at 9:02pm
	I had a Cat D73T that had a master clutch that would not release from sitting for an extended period with it engaged. Both the D7 and Your HD-10 have dry master clutches and steering clutches, I got My D7 to release by spraying "Brake Cleaner" on it over several days and then gently pushing against an immobile object (boulder in my case). Quite a project you've got, good luck with it !!!

Real_TL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 09 Jun 2014 Location: Rochester, NY Points: 20	Post Options Post Reply Quote Real_TL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Jun 2014 at 9:00pm
	I think my master is stuck in the open position so it may break free easy not sure till I try it, My rear steering clutches look like they are working good and free and also the brakes look like they will be working properly, I opened up the access panels and had a look today. Got it moved down by the barn where I have the painting set up and bought a good pressure washer to do the chassis and everything I cant tear down. Put the rocker mounts back on and took the grill off to take inside and paint also. We fixed the right track and put in the new master pin that dad had machined 30 yrs ago lol. tightened the track up so it should be good to go. Thanks everyone for your helpful post. Oh and I forgot to mention, Don't ever stand near a chain under stress, Had one come apart and go through my moms Cadillac rear window (25ft away) moving it up with the excavator. Just proof that it does happen and they do fly. I can never stress enough how dangerous they can be.

JC-WI Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: wisconsin Points: 33663	Post Options Post Reply Quote JC-WI Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Jun 2014 at 9:44pm
	Todd, Learned years ago to throw a coat, shirt or something on top of the chain in the middle... You won't believe how that will reduce and dampen the effects from a recoiling chain... Sure looks like your making progress on the old beast.
	He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."

ac_sd Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 23 Apr 2011 Points: 194	Post Options Post Reply Quote ac_sd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jun 2014 at 12:02pm
	Hi again, I usually tow these larger machines with a able choker which I feel safer using than a chain. But you bring up a really good point. I've also found that you can check whether steering clutches are working correctly by tying one lever at a time in the dis-engaged position and seeing if the machine will allow a track to slow or stop when you make it turn. Seems to be a good indicator. Can't do that with boosted steering though, obviously. You'll have a good historical record of your restoration project with your pictures. Thanks for sharing them with us. Have fun!!

allisguy.11 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Perry, Ny Points: 575	Post Options Post Reply Quote allisguy.11 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jun 2014 at 8:11pm
	Todd, HOw close are you to Rochester? We are an allis (agco) dealer in perry and grandpa has a lot of bulldozer knowledge. Let us know if you need any parts. Get a video of that bad girl for her first start up!!

Real_TL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 09 Jun 2014 Location: Rochester, NY Points: 20	Post Options Post Reply Quote Real_TL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jun 2014 at 9:51pm
	Primer Coat sprayed today, Tyna is down under getting paint in her hair LOL, actually tynas mom lives in perry ny so we go out there quite often. I am looking for a few things, I'm looking for an original hood and intake someone has rigged up one that I don't like too much and the hood is trashed with holes now, E mail me and we can get in touch sometime Hiltonghost@yahoo.com, Here are some pics from today.

Real_TL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 09 Jun 2014 Location: Rochester, NY Points: 20	Post Options Post Reply Quote Real_TL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 Jun 2014 at 9:07pm
	Didn't do much on it today, Mainly got the gauge cluster off to clean up and ordered all new gauges for it so hopefully I will be able to get her fired up this weekend to see if she will run. That's if the blower gets delivered by then. I think tomorrow were gonna pull it out and scrape the bad spots we see on the primer coat then re coat and hit the missed spots from the track position. I mainly wanted the bare metal spots primed so the rust didn't get worse. We still have to make a seat for it. I've saved some decent couch cushions I can use the foam out of and might go with boat seat fabric for that. I will probably end up doing that last tho.

Real_TL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 09 Jun 2014 Location: Rochester, NY Points: 20	Post Options Post Reply Quote Real_TL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 Jun 2014 at 8:38pm
	Well just an update, We got her back together, gauges installed, New blower on and she moves on the rear steering clutches but I still need to get that master clutch free, Been spraying the cams and parts with a lot of wd40 hoping it will eventually come loose, should I heat it up and spray it? It is stuck locked in the open position i believe. I will post some more pics and a vid tomorrow night if all goes well.