| Author |
|
mlpankey 
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Vols country
Points: 4580
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Posted: 29 Jan 2013 at 5:18pm |
 Rod B wrote:
mlpankey wrote:
if the billet stock machines easy to turn out rods in quantity on a cnc then youll need them hardened |
<FONT style=": #000000">
<FONT style=": #000000">Learnin aint ya. If you knew this much why didn't you harden your rods, they cut like butter.
<FONT style=": #000000">
<FONT style=": #000000">This is also why 4140 and 4340 billets are used for rods. Hardening before machining would be best. |
i have already learned. Two years ago when talking to jeff he said he didnt heat treat his rods he makes. Thus why you keep having to narrow them up to maintain clearance cause there bending.
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
mlpankey
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Vols country
Points: 4580
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Jan 2013 at 5:22pm |
|
The foolishness of rod and marty . Rod bender is rods name. Marty i bet i have been in and oit of more roll cages than you . Then again kids can drive tractors straight down 300 ft of track . Marty lets see the barn your machine shop is in. My twin sons arent in diapers when they where I played in the sports that interested me various motorsports. Theres something about twin sons I recon goes back as far as genesis about them loving wrestling . So while they are in high school and even if they go further with wrestling to minnesota iowa or even edinboro i will take the time to support them and put my motorsport playing on hold untill they decide they dont want dad around cheering them on at their interests of youth but will continue in building and assembling engines might even be able to pull a few times when it doesnt interfere with their schedule i am hoping anyways to at least smell the bbc smoke again in a chasis before retiring. even though i would love to finish millers cadilac headed jd i just cant bring myself around to brag about a non allis puller on the allis forum.
Edited by mlpankey - 29 Jan 2013 at 5:47pm
|
|
Ihateillinoisnazis
Orange Level
Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Location: By The Lake
Points: 273
|
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Jan 2013 at 5:46pm |
|
Spankalittle you make this way too easy. The only cages you climbed into are the jungle gym at the local park. Prove your track record, and cite your sources when you do.
|
|
mlpankey
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Vols country
Points: 4580
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Jan 2013 at 5:49pm |
Ihateillinoisnazis wrote:
Spankalittle you make this way too easy. The only cages you climbed into are the jungle gym at the local park. Prove your track record, and cite your sources when you do. |
you should be able to find a picture of me and tractor at crossroads of dixies website. rod pulled up some a while back.
|
|
Ihateillinoisnazis
Orange Level
Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Location: By The Lake
Points: 273
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Jan 2013 at 5:52pm |
mlpankey wrote:
Ihateillinoisnazis wrote:
Spankalittle you make this way too easy. The only cages you climbed into are the jungle gym at the local park. Prove your track record, and cite your sources when you do. |
you should be able to find a picture of me and tractor at crossroads of dixies website. rod pulled up some a while back. |
Oh yeah? How about you post a link of where you finished in the class?
|
|
mlpankey
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Vols country
Points: 4580
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Jan 2013 at 5:55pm |
should be results there also you guys found my shops with the adresses wipe the drool and start hunting
|
|
Rod B
Orange Level
Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Location: Peoria
Points: 415
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Jan 2013 at 6:00pm |
|
Look in the top fuel machining illi. Ctucker posted the results, spankster's bout 100 ft behind consistantly.
|
|
Rod B
Orange Level
Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Location: Peoria
Points: 415
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Jan 2013 at 6:30pm |
mlpankey wrote:
The foolishness of rod and marty . Rod bender is rods name. Marty i bet i have been in and oit of more roll cages than you . Then again kids can drive tractors straight down 300 ft of track . Marty lets see the barn your machine shop is in. My twin sons arent in diapers when they where I played in the sports that interested me various motorsports. Theres something about twin sons I recon goes back as far as genesis about them loving wrestling . So while they are in high school and even if they go further with wrestling to minnesota iowa or even edinboro i will take the time to support them and put my motorsport playing on hold untill they decide they dont want dad around cheering them on at their interests of youth but will continue in building and assembling engines might even be able to pull a few times when it doesnt interfere with their schedule i am hoping anyways to at least smell the bbc smoke again in a chasis before retiring. even though i would love to finish millers cadilac headed jd i just cant bring myself around to brag about a non allis puller on the allis forum. |
If yoy didn't spend so much time lying to the forum you'd have time to pull and watch the boys.
|
|
Carl(NWWI)
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: NW WI
Points: 948
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Jan 2013 at 6:56pm |
|
Pank, I still don't understand why you think he doesn't build AC's.....?? His videos have been on here of his WC, I've pulled against one of his WD-45's and seen the same one place 3rd in a really tough class. This post is about building a 226, last time I checked that's an Allis engine. I've been to the shop, seen the 226 blocks, the rods, pistons, the heads.... its all real, it exists.
So his bragging about a WC past a long time ago. So what's so bad about bragging up a couple thousand hp limited super? Just proves again that he can build engines.
Perhaps jealously? The Best running thing on your engines is your mouth.
|
|
Hudsonator
Orange Level
Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Location: Tennessee
Points: 2113
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Jan 2013 at 6:59pm |
wi50 wrote:
Hudsonator, Leroi rods use the same width as the Allis rods, have a canted cap and are 8" long center to center. Accept the clamp in .990" pin. Nothing special. If you're looking for something to use in the Allis for your "working" build you've mentioned. Massey Harris 33 uses a rod that you can easily grind the 226 crank to, and use some common automotive pistons depending on what you're after. IH 308 truck engine is a good cantidate. The Farmall H is a bit narrower than the Allis. Maybe I'll lay them out and post a picture for you. I take it you want to build something close to 10 to 1 compression ratio to burn your own fuel, and use common easy to get, tough parts.
|
Talk to me about the perkins rod. I'm not interested in going below the 2.30" rod journal diameter of the H or 350 Rod. In fact, I'm not interested in going the H-rod route unless running the later model oil pump and full pressure oiling.
I'm not especially happy about the additional cost of having the crank re-machined. Nor am I excited about having stock pistons machined for spiral locks on the wristpins. Most of the shops around here get cross-eyed when you talk about such as machining for wristpin locks.
Whomever has a stash of LeRoi rods, PM me. I need 8. However I try to avoid them, they still pop up as the #1 choice for what I'm trying to do. Perhaps the perkins rods will change that - we'll see.
|
|
There isn't much a WC can't do.
WD's just do it better.
|
|
wi50
Orange Level
Joined: 24 Sep 2010
Location: weegieland
Points: 1010
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Jan 2013 at 10:31pm |
That spankey is something else isn't he. Next time you dig a hole pank, don't fall in and keep digging. Anyway Hudsonator, I don't know what you want to do or what pistons you're going to use but the Perkins rod uses a 2.25" crankpin. It's to narrow to put on the Allis without doing extra work. I used them in my Allis WC puller engine many years ago. Super strong rods with large bolts. I machined a little ring out, cut it in half and tig welded it on the rod to take up the extra space. I spun that little engine up over 6000 RPM many times. John Deere gas engines use a nice little rod that may work for you also, I'd have to look more at one and get some dimensions. I checked one time but don't rember what the crankpin was and how wide they were. Look into the Dubuque series of engines like the 2510, 2520 family, etc. gas tractors would have used. Case SC rods are a perfect fit, except you can't get bearings..... there I posted that nasty C word again didn't I. In the end it comes down to how hard you want to work. I do keep a set or two of billet rods on hand, or at least try to. I have a 5.75" and 6" stroke crankshafts. Got a couple sets of pistons that work out well with these things..... but you don't want to build a pulling engine for short use. You have a couple options for holding the wrist pins. Run an aluminum button. Run a press fit pin, it would be no problem to make a steel bushing or bore the end of the rod, size it for a press fit pin, and assemble like the last few million or so automotive engines. I'd just shorten the wrist pins in your Allis pistons or make dang sure they can't rub the cylinder wall. Next option is to cut lock ring groves, I've done it. I made a mandrill in the lathe to go through the .990" pin hole on one side of the piston only and just short enough that it doesn't come through the hole into the center of the piston. Thread the center of the mandrill. Put the piston on the mandrill and use a bolt, allen headed cap screw and a large thick washer to tighten the piston on the mandrill against the lathe chuck or step on the mandrill if useing larger diameter material. Now you can use a boreing bar and come in the other pin boss and cut the grove, reverse the piston and repeat. It doesn't take much time at all, a turning lathe, boreing bar, piece of stock and an hour of time. I hope you can visualize this setup. To many people think that some of this work is way to special, like you said the shops look crosseyed at a simple task. Just a little thought and it becomes a real simple job.
Edited by wi50 - 29 Jan 2013 at 10:49pm
|
|
"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
|
|
EricSWPA
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: PA
Points: 292
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 5:01am |
|
Last I knew the rod bearings for a case sc could be bought its been about 3 years but I still have them since I ran into a machinist who's on the dishonest side and no its not pankey lol but anyhow the mains for the case are the bad ones to get all I could get were refurbished and were roughly 300 bucks for the mains
|
|
unstylish_
Silver Level
Joined: 19 Dec 2012
Location: southwestern Mi
Points: 129
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 7:03am |
|
Eric, it wasn't a dishonest case machinest from pa was it?
|
|
mlpankey
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Vols country
Points: 4580
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 7:09am |
|
Unstylish let me know how you run in michigan next season.
|
|
Rod B
Orange Level
Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Location: Peoria
Points: 415
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 7:40am |
|
Why? So you can stalk Andy? Let us know how you run neax season spank. You been beating around the bush claiming you have a modified Allis and have been currently competeing. What happened to the machine shop partnership? It's not quite the same as writing the checks to hire your parts built and fit is it.
|
|
mlpankey
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Vols country
Points: 4580
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 7:43am |
|
I might know of a new tractor in the area from the machine shop partnership
Edited by mlpankey - 30 Jan 2013 at 7:43am
|
|
Rod B
Orange Level
Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Location: Peoria
Points: 415
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 7:50am |
|
then the only thing anyone has to worry about is shrapnel
|
|
Ihateillinoisnazis
Orange Level
Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Location: By The Lake
Points: 273
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 8:23am |
Rod B wrote:
then the only thing anyone has to worry about is shrapnel |
Naaaa it will blow up on the dyno before it makes it to the track. And what's the deal with a partnership?? I thought you the spankster had all the tools and knowledge to build tune and make your own world class pulling tractor??
|
|
mlpankey
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Vols country
Points: 4580
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 8:58am |
hudsonator . If you take a 226 cubic inch engine divide it by number of cylinders you get 56.6 divide that by a bigger than factory 1.6 intake valve size = 35.3125
if you use this lca chart you see your off the chart and if you choose the advice of using a longer rod you will be even fruther of the chart at 90 or bellow for a proper cam lca
Edited by mlpankey - 30 Jan 2013 at 9:03am
|
|
Butch(OH)
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Lucerne Ohio
Points: 3829
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 9:13am |
|
I really am beginning to wonder about undetected radiation leaks at certain TVA plants.
|
|
mlpankey
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Vols country
Points: 4580
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 9:18am |
Butch(OH) wrote:
I really am beginning to wonder about undetected radiation leaks at certain TVA plants. |
i knew it would be a real stretch for you to understand. however pulling with hudsonators dad i do believe they do
|
|
wi50
Orange Level
Joined: 24 Sep 2010
Location: weegieland
Points: 1010
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 9:27am |
Did you know that the pankey 1.6" intake valves in these Allis 201 and 226 engines is really 1.7", at least here it is. Most of the intake valves I have taken out are all 1.69-1.7" depending on. Just pointing out the error in measurement. The math is correct but his measureing skills suck. Any idiot can push numbers on a calculator, and with a bit more skills can read a caliper.
Or should I say spankey math. It's similar to spanknomics..... a little off. It's like saying how competitive your tractor is with a purchased engine and being a hundred feet behind on a consistant basis. Or like saying how you built your own engine in your own machine shop partnership and then finding out that the "partners" took your money and laughed at you......
The chart isn't for siamesed port 4 cyl with a flat crank either.......
Edited by wi50 - 30 Jan 2013 at 9:31am
|
|
"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
|
|
mlpankey
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Vols country
Points: 4580
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 9:30am |
|
stock intake valve is not 1.7 . siameese ports doesnt effect cams ground lca . of coarse hudsonator dad runs a siameesed port 292 and doesnt run a loppy idle .so they will get it.
Edited by mlpankey - 30 Jan 2013 at 9:33am
|
|
wi50
Orange Level
Joined: 24 Sep 2010
Location: weegieland
Points: 1010
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 9:37am |
any idiot can google "allis 226 intake valve" and see that they are 1.688 from agkits.com and probably slightly different from other suppliers. I just measured a few that I have in a bag and they were 1.69 and 1.695
And the siamesed port does, you have to think about it. (I know it's impossiable) It's a compramise between 4 cylinders, 2 of which get a break and 2 have to share through a 4 cyl order. It effects the 2nd pair on overlap..... It may be a little over your head at this point but if you think really hard for a day or two it might come to you....
I have a lot to do, so I've got to get at it for the rest of the day. Spend your time learning. It's clear you have a lot of learning to do.
Edited by wi50 - 30 Jan 2013 at 9:39am
|
|
"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
|
|
mlpankey
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Vols country
Points: 4580
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 9:55am |
|
ok my memory is off .still it doesnt fit the chart . chart stops at 30 new math 34 still below 100 additional rod length would make it even lower and thats the point .Jeffs 1.85 rockers wouldnt get it back out of reversion or suffecient vacuum at idle. the tighter the lca the more overlap you have . ed iskyderian was grinding splatter pattern cams for siameesed intake ports on inlines in the 1950s
Edited by mlpankey - 30 Jan 2013 at 10:02am
|
|
Rod B
Orange Level
Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Location: Peoria
Points: 415
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 10:04am |
|
I see what you're saying Marty. Lobe seperation and exhaust duration would effect when the exh opens and closes, which would effect the overlap events on 2 of the intake cycles even though it's the same opening to crank position relationship.
Or whatever. Doesn't matter. This thread is about connecting rods right, and that pank's a moron.
|
|
mlpankey
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Vols country
Points: 4580
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 10:06am |
|
niether of you see as the lca gets tighter overlap gets larger and thats where your problem occurs in the siameese . the connecting rod length can make it worse by requiring even a tighter lca for bore to intake valve size . I really should quit teaching someday you may cut into my stroker building proffit.
Edited by mlpankey - 30 Jan 2013 at 10:10am
|
|
Larry W.
Silver Level
Joined: 07 Nov 2010
Location: Luck, WI
Points: 278
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 10:13am |
|
What I love about pank is that everything must coincide with a formula or chart he read in a book one time or another. If someone makes something work that does not fit his idealistic ideas then he refuses to accept it, and then attacks that person. Fact is pank if you can't get past this kind of mindset, you're never going to be in the winner's circle. I will place my bet on farmboy engineering over your book of formulas everytime!
|
|
Rod B
Orange Level
Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Location: Peoria
Points: 415
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 10:22am |
|
He's cranky because he can't measure and got busted. Should I bring up his cam timeing idea of useing a 8 degree bushing wherever he happens to put it in relationship to the center axis means the cam rotates 8 degrees. His machinist said so, but math says otherwise.
|
|
mlpankey
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Vols country
Points: 4580
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 10:25am |
|
purchase five reground cams from five different cam doctor grinders and tell me the differences in lca and when you do know tell me why you would design a rod to a length that would get you outside the cams optimum range to make best power. after all isnt it about putting the best overall package together to create the best performance. This is where charts graphs engine simultors dyno graphs etc beat pulling some idea from the hip. The weakest most mismatched 226 engine i ever had was the most consistant motor i ever had . Why? answere it didnt make enough power to stress any parts and break at any pulls it was registered at.
Edited by mlpankey - 30 Jan 2013 at 10:37am
|
|
Topic Options
